Joe Pusz, PMO Joe


                                                    

This month I talk to Joe Pusz, Joe has been a Project Management advocate for over 20 years.  As a leader in the Project Management space, clients and peers have nicknamed him  "PMO Joe".

Joe frequently speaks at Industry events leading the charge to help organizations understand the value of effective Project Management.  Joe is the President of THE PMO SQUAD, a Project Management consultancy that is 100% Project Management 100% of the time.

THE PMO SQUAD helps clients implement PMO's and Project Management best practices, as well as provide Training, PM Software Selection & Support, Project Resources, Fractional Project Management Solutions for smaller organizations who don't need a full-time solution.

He is also the leader of the Veterans Project Management Mentoring Program and host of the Project Management Office Hours radio show broadcast live the 1st and 3rd Thursday each month on Phoenix Business RadioX.



Hope you enjoy the show and until next time remember project management is funny. 

Thanks,

Nige










Unknown Speaker  0:00  
I'd like to welcome my guest for today, Joe pass, who has been a project management advocate for over 20 years, working with organisations like texture sister, Bell Helicopter, well star health systems and as a leader in the project management space, his clients have nicknamed him PMOJU. Frequent speaks it and industry events leading the charge to help organisations understand the value of effective project management. And Joe is the president of the PMO squad, a project management consultancy. That is 100% project management 100% of the time. The payments code helps clients implement GMOs and project management best practices, as well as providing training, pm software selection support, project resources, fractional project management solutions for smaller organisations who don't need full time solutions. He's also a leader of the veterans project management mentoring programme, and the host of the project management office hours radio show broadcast on the first and third Thursday of every month on the Phoenix Business radio x. And it's the number one live project management radio show in the US. And he's available as a podcast as well. So Joe, welcome

Unknown Speaker  1:17  
to the show.

Unknown Speaker  1:19  
Thank you, Nigel, I'm so happy to be here with you today.

Unknown Speaker  1:23  
Hopefully, it'll be a great conversation, I'm sure. So, you know, I my structure there. So I've got a list of questions. And hopefully listeners are starting to get used to this,

Unknown Speaker  1:33  
this format.

Unknown Speaker  1:36  
So my first question is Where did Where was the project Joe? First initiated? Where were you born?

Unknown Speaker  1:44  
Born in Connecticut, here in the US Hartford. But then, within a year or so, moved into Albany, New York area, and spent most of my youth growing up in their Rotterdam, New York

Unknown Speaker  2:00  
shows up my I know where New York is. I have no reference of where Connecticut is. My total geography of the US

Unknown Speaker  2:07  
just outside New York City. Most folks know where that is, of course. Yeah. So not too far from there.

Unknown Speaker  2:15  
Bernie. So, um, and where do you live now?

Unknown Speaker  2:20  
Now I'm out in Phoenix, Arizona, we've, as a family travelled quite a bit across the states, with 20 or so years in Atlanta, a few years in the Dallas, Texas area, as well as some time in Wichita, Kansas. And we've been out here in Phoenix for a couple of years enjoying the nice hot summers that we get out here in summertime reunion.

Unknown Speaker  2:45  
And so you say the family what's, what's the family?

Unknown Speaker  2:49  
Well, we've got my wife and I as well as four kids and two dogs, who you may have heard at the beginning of their intro saying hello. So Charlie Jackson are the dogs. And then we've got three boys and one girl, Josh, Zach, Gabe, and Sydney. And collectively, we've all been along on this journey travelling across the US and advocating for project management.

Unknown Speaker  3:15  
Excellent. You've got the kids involved with applicant project management as well.

Unknown Speaker  3:19  
Well, I've had them on my show, they've attended some of the shows that I put on, they're still in school. So they're not young enough to be out there in the business world. But teaching them the basics right of organisation and planning, and ensuring that when they do get out there into the real world, they'll be prepared to deliver and help organisations be successful.

Unknown Speaker  3:43  
That's a really good point. Because I think a lot of the time we look at projects as being these the skills of project management that being needed for being a project manager, but a lot of the things we learn to deal with their life skills.

Unknown Speaker  3:57  
Yeah, if you think at least in my schooling, even college back when I went, we, we didn't get any education on how to deliver how to influence people how to motivate people. those skills all came to me in my professional career, and I wish I had had them. During my youth, I did get some of that because I participated in athletics growing up. So coaches would always help us with the people skills, right, trying to motivate teams to excel and come together and much as we do with projects. Yeah. But the formal education that was always missing.

Unknown Speaker  4:33  
Yeah, I think it's something I see it over in the UK as well. It's

Unknown Speaker  4:37  
it's that that I

Unknown Speaker  4:40  
suppose his organisation skills, if you boil it down just to self time management, and it's kind of not taught on the kit for the kids, it's kind of just, they throw that hold their feet to the fire by organising revision for exams, and they have to be organised or not organised. And if they are, that means they've learned how to do it. And if they're not, they haven't and, and invariably, a lot of a lot of us grow up going, I think on that last point. And just you cram at the end, don't you? Is the time management technique that we all start to learn by default, because you've got that hard stop. And that's not the best way to do it, obviously. And it goes alongside with the with your finances as well, because I think I don't know what it's like in the US. But in the UK, the there's a lot of major in on maths and stuff, but not a lot about money and finances and understanding when you've got one of these not favourable loan interest rates that you get, and all the fine print that you can't really

Unknown Speaker  5:38  
decipher.

Unknown Speaker  5:39  
Yeah, and you know, same thing here and my kids when they graduate high school, I have no idea if they'll be prepared to write a check for something right. I mean, schools don't prepare them for that nor, you know, we all do projects at what professionally read home, right? If we're going to renovate our bathroom, or do yard upgrades for their landscaping, right? That's a project. And if we can teach that at home with the home based projects, I think our kids will be more prepared when they go into formal education and beyond into a profession of how those projects are structured and how to deliver and how to work. So I was certainly wouldn't say that I'm PMO. Joe, when I'm at home, sure. I'm dad when I'm at home. But we're we're still using the same skills and techniques when I'm running. Yeah, if I were running a professional project,

Unknown Speaker  6:29  
yeah, I don't know, you may not did a similar sort of thing with them. We were doing quite a bit of garden work. And we have three small windows. And those three small windows a load of post, its became a Trello. border, to do doing and done. And it got me some rain looks from the kids. There's more, there's more for me to be able to structure my my thinking than anything else. Got it? Yeah, yeah. And I could sit there and I could see the scale of what we had to do. And everyone else could as well as which I think is the great thing of using those boards that visual management stuff. So you said you were Phoenix? You were born in Connecticut, but but grew up? You said near near New York, which was? So when you were growing up there?

Unknown Speaker  7:20  
Did you have it written down there on the wall? I want to be PMO. Joe?

Unknown Speaker  7:26  
Are you interested in something else?

Unknown Speaker  7:28  
Yeah, I wanted to be a professional baseball player I, you know, I didn't. I didn't know about project management. I came from a family where my parents weren't really college educated. And my brother and I was three years older than me. But we went into our college career at the same time. So we were the first that really got any sort of professional education and perhaps through college. So I didn't, there was no, no notion at all, and I'd be headed then the project management route. And, you know, I didn't end up being a professional baseball player. So I had to do something and found out over time, what project management is and realised, wow, that's that's what I was born to do. Or, oftentimes, I'll call myself a natural born project manager, because I don't have to be a project manager, I've found out that I just am a project manager.

Unknown Speaker  8:29  
So you say you wanted to be a pro baseball player, what? What position did you want to play, and you're talking to a Brit here, I'm not going to understand that

Unknown Speaker  8:38  
the Yankees and Red Sox are about headed, they're headed over, they're going to have a series there this weekend. So you can catch up, see some of us. But I was a catcher, or a pitcher. And those were the two positions really that controlled every pitch for every play within the game. And again, I think it helps build the foundation for me of the organisation and how the team moves and participates together, how to influence the team to be able to perform collectively to beat your opponent or deliver the outcome that you're seeking. So by default, I think those positions really helped me prepare, when it came time for Project Manager because I was already used to be in the person that was in charge of the team and helping direct the team to win the game.

Unknown Speaker  9:28  
So I'm guessing with the pitcher was is the

Unknown Speaker  9:32  
it's kind of like the quarterback or the or the captain of the football team. That's the kind of decides what the play is going to be kind of thing with the with the person that you're pitching against.

Unknown Speaker  9:41  
That's right, the great analogy there is the pitcher is the quarterback of the baseball team. And then the catcher has the full view view of the whole field. So once the ball is in play, the catcher then directs the team members as to how to execute on the steps within play. So depending on which was when I was playing on that given day, I was either delivering the pitch and controlling how the game ago or then receiving the pitch as catcher and directing our fielders how to execute. So it was always in the middle of the action.

Unknown Speaker  10:13  
Excellent. I can see how that would work. But did you get with with your with with that to be the athletics training GF quite a bit structured, structured

Unknown Speaker  10:23  
training plans as well and kind of knowing what you're going to do when?

Unknown Speaker  10:28  
Yeah, absolutely. And we have that's another great transition into professional career because we had during athletic time a playbook right. And the playbook would detail out what each position player would have to do based on the circumstance of the game. And we would practice that repeatedly over and over again. So that gametime situations, we were prepared, we didn't have to think you just reacted. We've taken that concept forward into the PMO squad was we work with our customers, we build a playbook for them as to how a PMO would react and respond so that the team members of the P MMO. Don't have to think, right, they can just react because they've been practising and training how to handle each of those situations. So to me, there's a very close bond between my time in athletics and my youth, and the training and coaching that I received through that. Now as a business owner with a team of my own how we go about deploying that for our clients.

Unknown Speaker  11:33  
That's really interesting.

Unknown Speaker  11:35  
Yeah, I can see how that would all join together and get you like kind of systemized everything is Nate, by having that playbook, you have a system for dealing with this scenario, you have a system for dealing with this.

Unknown Speaker  11:47  
So when you were

Unknown Speaker  11:50  
at college, and you were doing you're aiming at being pro baseball, what were you studying there,

Unknown Speaker  11:57  
the original intent was I was going for it accounting work. And then after about a year, I realised that I needed more action than that I needed a little more human interaction, and switched over to Business Economics, so that I could understand how the world revolves in the business world. And ultimately ended up getting a master's degree in advanced degree in organisational communication, as I kind of really update dove deep into the communication side of how organisations and individuals within those organisations communicate, interact with each other. And how their patterns that are formed from organisation to industry and across industries. That sort of stuff really fascinates me. So it's just been continuing education, because the more clients you have, the more you learn from them as well.

Unknown Speaker  12:57  
Yeah, organised I remember I did a

Unknown Speaker  13:01  
it would say, as a lower level, sort of, as we have in the UK, a devil kind of

Unknown Speaker  13:07  
levels with business days, and there was a

Unknown Speaker  13:10  
section on organisation and communication side of it. And I find that that whole area quite fascinating on how it's kind of like and continued with that is thinking about the the listening to the stuff about tribes and how organisations, even if you've got an old one organisation, their identity changes and with projects, as well you your project creates becomes an identity as it tries to become self organised. And even when you don't want it to, because you get a little bit of a click together, don't you? And you become you, you're holding each other's back. And those things happen without, without intent quite often in organisations.

Unknown Speaker  13:55  
Well, yeah, if you just, there's some fun experiments, right? If you were just in a rooms, a social gathering at your house, and look at the dynamics of, you know, maybe 20 adults that are together for a party, and watch the patterns of communication form, and who stand out without any direction that what your role is people as take on the role within there. So there's the host or the hostess, but then those roles are kind of defined. But other people are moving away from the communication, others are moving towards the communication, some are wishing the attention were placed upon them even more. So organisations do the same thing. And the people within those organisations do because we, as humans, form into these groups, either subconsciously, or consciously in some instances, and how the dynamics of that communication happens to me fascinates me, of how those individuals can form up into cliques, as you mentioned, where teams or departments and work together or not to deliver products and services as part of a broader organisation. So all of that just for me, as I've gotten more familiar with clients across industries, it's been fascinating to see how that has consistencies across industries and size of companies, but also differences between them as well.

Unknown Speaker  15:18  
Yeah, it's a fascinating, fascinating area, I think.

Unknown Speaker  15:22  
With, with with you getting your, your, your masters, what, what did you do when you left college?

Unknown Speaker  15:30  
Well, at that time, the Olympics, were actually coming back to the States. And they were going to be in Atlanta. So that was what prompted my move from New York to Atlanta was to go and observe to be part of those Olympics move there and see that that world athletic event, because again, athletics were so important in my life at the time, just to go there and be a part of it to live in the city where it was happening, and fell in love with Atlanta. So, you know, at that point, it was really just being a young guy trying to figure his way post college, and really didn't have a career focus at that point was more just concerned. But like, a lot of young guys in the states just enjoyed my time. But you grow out of that eventually. And that's when I was working for a software organisation. As a systems consultant, and I found project management in that role. I would be on site at clients working with them on a daily basis. And one day my boss asked how the project was going. What project I have no idea what you're talking, I don't even know what a project is going to be this the the system the implementation of software into the parts department of a car dealership, for them that was a project to implement this new software. And I just latched on to that and went and did my research found out what a project was. And that was the birth of PMO Joe and my time as a project manager. That's that's, that'd be 20 over 20 foot probably about 25 years ago or so.

Unknown Speaker  17:14  
So you you heard of it, you thought you'd like the sound of it, and you decided to go for it.

Unknown Speaker  17:20  
Yeah, because to me, it's it was you know, it seemed like that picture roll the quarterback right, it was the person that was driving the team to achieve the result. And and I've always just gravitated to that role. And so for me, it was it was a familiar spot to be in. Granted, I didn't know the techniques and skills yet that the profession has. But the innate components that I was, again, the natural born project manager, those pieces were just part of me. So having that opportunity to do that as a career. You know, that's fun again, that to me, that became Hey, I'm not going to be a major league baseball player, but now I know what I'll be for the rest of my life.

Unknown Speaker  18:01  
And that's how you thought it for the rest of your life is all

Unknown Speaker  18:04  
because I realised that's who I always was anyway. Right? I think from the moment I was born, until the day I die, I'll be in am in will be a project manager, because that's just who I am. I don't have to be a project manager, I don't have to think about it. I don't have to try to do it. I don't have to want to go learn about it. And I just am always seeking out how to be a better project manager because it just it's in my DNA. It's just who I am.

Unknown Speaker  18:35  
That's fantastic.

Unknown Speaker  18:38  
Absolutely. So so with your your senior in the software industry and car dealerships, what? What kind of industries have you worked in? And I know from your little bio, got there got a little bit of an insight into that, but it's kind of what what have you? What have you played with?

Unknown Speaker  18:56  
Yeah, pretty diverse background, I think I've been in the software industry, I've also been an aerospace and defence been in the financial sector, been in the aviation industry. Textron, you had mentioned one company I worked for as a multi industry conglomerate. So I was fortunate enough to work through several of their business units in multiple industries, as well as healthcare. So a pretty good spread a broad spectrum of background. And then after starting the PML squad, of course, we have clients across many industries as well. So it's a diverse, it's been fun. And it's also been educational, because each industry thinks they're unique. And what I what I've come to find is that man, they execute projects the same way. They just have never had exposure to the other industries, to know how similar they actually are, and maybe producing different goods and services, but their behaviours, the mechanics, the organisational structure, the delivery of those goods and services, there are so many commonalities across industries.

Unknown Speaker  20:10  
Yeah, I think

Unknown Speaker  20:13  
it is that feeling of

Unknown Speaker  20:17  
there will be nuances, obviously. But then as you say that those fundamentals are the fundamentals on who's doing what, by when? And what risks are there that those those fundamental items and tools that you need to deliver, those are always going to be the same?

Unknown Speaker  20:36  
Yeah. And that's what makes again, the projects. So fun to be a part of, because there, by definition, they're all unique. By decisions within the organisation, they're all important, right? Somebody has to consciously decide that we're going to do the project. And to be a leader, the person that's responsible for that, to me that that's super exciting. And every day, you know, you're going to have something different. You're not, you're not just making widgets, right, you're producing something that's never been done before, because each project is unique. So you know, the service and good you're going to produce is unique. It's not operations, right? It's something new, and that I love that daily challenge and daily grind, to be in the middle of something that's so important to each of these organisations,

Unknown Speaker  21:24  
and I get them together. So with that software, talking to your boss, new Annette and research them projects, what was your first what you remembers being your first project that you were a project manager?

Unknown Speaker  21:40  
Well, that's, I think my first official title, as project manager was a software, organise it for a software organisation, that at the time, was automating the registration process for products you had purchased. So that the company for instance, if you buy a new computer, way back in the day, you used to fill out a card and mail it in, and your product would be registered so that if you needed a warranty repair, and you could get that done. Well, just as all things became automated, that there was the company I was working for was automating that registration process. So you would go online, fill out the questions that you normally would have done on the card, hit submit, and they now have a record of who bought the product. So it was the projects I was running for that time were different electronics products, that we were writing the electronic registration for them, and you think back and that's I don't even know if companies still do that. I have no idea how that happens anymore.

Unknown Speaker  22:53  
No, I'm not sure. I think you do have some registration moves. So a lot of things that tend to be throw away, cut off. He's texted me.

Unknown Speaker  23:01  
Yeah. And the beauty is add that you think as I look back on it, the reason that company existed was, of course to read the software for that. But the data was it was at the beginning of when data was being consumed, and then sold. So everybody who bought those products. There were other companies out there who wants to know, who is the person, right? What's the stereotype of that person, that persona of that individual who's buying that product? So we had this wealth of data that was available, and other companies were coming to us to buy that data? And that was, to me the most interesting part of working there.

Unknown Speaker  23:41  
Yes, that's,

Unknown Speaker  23:43  
yeah, it becomes a dangerous King these days in

Unknown Speaker  23:47  
the new It's the new oil as the Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  23:50  
yeah. So obviously, that was the first one that you, you remember yourself being that with a badge, the official PN? What was the largest project that you've run to date? And, and when I say largest, that's, that could be monetary value that could be number of people that could be the influence it had on the in the organisation that you were working for, or the importance of it to society, whatever. What do you kind of what's the, the one that you think had the most meaning from your perspective? And what were the main things you've learned from it?

Unknown Speaker  24:29  
Well, I think I'll maybe answer it indirectly. And say, instead of the largest project, I'll talk about the largest PMO that I had to run. And in the healthcare sector, we're health care system while I was in Atlanta, and our budget for the PMO was $500 million. And it was over a five year roadmap that we were executing against that, to implement everything that you can think of within the healthcare organisation from electronic medical records, to email systems, moving the data centre, you name it, everything was in there. So we had a team of, I don't know, probably about 20, a direct employed resources plus consulting resources that were assisting on some of those projects, probably getting up over 100 plus total resources. And that was a unique situation for me, because I had never been in healthcare before. So having the recognition that every project that we worked on was for the betterment or welfare of a patient who was seeking some assistance from a health care provider. So we had a direct impact on the care of all the patients that we were serving. And of course, with a budget that large, was a great importance to the organisation that we managed it well. And we're good stewards of the responsibility to have a budget of 500 million, and to ensure that it was going to be spent wisely. And we were going to be efficient with the activities that we were doing for them.

Unknown Speaker  26:18  
It seems like that quite comfortably fits into my definition of large.

Unknown Speaker  26:25  
what it was, it was a, I guess it was a lot of pressure, you know, but we reported directly into the executive of the organisation as well as the board. And we provided regular status to progress and where we were. So it was a great responsibility, but a great experience to be able to take with me and use it as as part of the launch of what ultimately became the CMO squad and an organisation that I started because I did have that kind of experience gave me the confidence to be able to go help others who had need just like they did when I was working there.

Unknown Speaker  27:06  
Yeah, sure. So it probably a really hard question. But what would you say was the the biggest learning point that you would pick out of that?

Unknown Speaker  27:17  
engagement.

Unknown Speaker  27:20  
The the one that is top of mind was, we were a part of the portfolio included extending the wireless infrastructure in the health and hospital system, so that the mobile computers would be able to have better connectivity. And one of the projects we had to do was implementing a wireless connector into an operating room.

Unknown Speaker  27:50  
And the procedure, our project

Unknown Speaker  27:56  
didn't the contracting team that we use to implement that didn't clean up the operating room afterwards. And there was an open heart surgery scheduled coming in after that process happened at the in the operating room, and they had to cancel the procedure. So our project was directly responsible for the cancelling of an open heart procedure for an individual who needed that surgery to maintain their health, of course, and perhaps stay alive. And that was a moment that I truly, I think I always knew, of course, how important our projects were in the impact ahead. But at that moment in time, I realised that my team, my project managers, my my outside vendors that we were using, all of us in a healthcare setting, are putting our hands on a patient and influence their treatment in our care, even if we don't think we are, that was to me, one of my most important and influential learnings throughout my entire career.

Unknown Speaker  29:06  
Yeah, I suppose it's that

Unknown Speaker  29:10  
thing where we look at what are who are our stakeholders.

Unknown Speaker  29:14  
And there's that realisation of how serious and impact you can have on a stakeholder that is quite a long way away from you as an individual in the chain of interactions. And just remembering remembering that sometimes quite difficult to do.

Unknown Speaker  29:30  
Absolutely. And that's you know, now we have one of the services we offer, the PMO squad is called the purpose driven PMO. And, and that is, in large part a direct reflection of that experience, I had to understand that the purpose that we're doing projects and project management and organisations goes beyond just completing checklists and passing gate reviews. Right there, there is something more at the end of that project in that engagement or within that PMO that we're really responsible for. And that's what we have to be focused on.

Unknown Speaker  30:07  
That is your biggest.

Unknown Speaker  30:10  
My next questions is kind of

Unknown Speaker  30:14  
minute might be related to the previous conversation is, what would you say is the biggest screwup that you've made? And what did you learn from that? And,

Unknown Speaker  30:27  
you know, I think the the biggest screwup I had, along the time was when I was working with Bell Helicopter. And the first is my first time ever, as a manager of a pain mount. And I had not received any training and how to run a PMO and always run projects. So I executed the PMO, as if it were a project where it I started it, I assessed it, I lead the team as if it was a project and didn't treat it as a department didn't treat it as a team or an organisation that was working on multiple projects. Right. To me, it was just a project. And I, you know, I think I failed, right in the grand scheme of things of what I was supposed to achieve. But I had a great mentor at the time, who helped me understand what I was doing and how it was being perceived by the organisation. And with that training and knowledge and experience and wisdom that he shared with me, I was able to take away from that, again, the value that a PMO can provide to an organisation when done right, but also the harm that it can do to an organisation when done poorly. So again, I'll kind of sidestep the answer directly related to a project but answer it more along the PMO guidelines.

Unknown Speaker  31:59  
Yeah, that's and I can understand that, yeah, because it is this different set of tools that you need to know, to use for those two things, as you say, it's, it's your pay mo in from, from my point of view is, has longevity and your projects don't and, and you're there to build the systems to build to help those projects Go on, because projects come and go. And if you put set the PMO, right properly, it's going to stay there to be able to service those projects, as the industry as the business needs.

Unknown Speaker  32:34  
Yeah, and that's the way we think about our profession, and the different types of organisations that exist to train us. You know, PMI, perhaps, is maybe the most popular in the world. It's really focused on the individual right, and individual certifications, as opposed to the organisation the function within the company. Right? And what are we doing? And how are we training those leaders to prepare them to lead an organisation? You know, the majority of the research out there shows that P MMOs. Typically end or have a life cycle of about three years, which is almost ludicrous, if you think about it, in England,

Unknown Speaker  33:19  
specially in this day and age?

Unknown Speaker  33:20  
Yeah, we compare that to a accounting department or a sales department or the manufacturing department or the HR department. How do we allow that to happen with the delivery side of the organisation? Yeah. And that's where I think the again, the focus has to be within our industry, of course, we have to execute projects. Well, but a project is just part of a portfolio.

Unknown Speaker  33:43  
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  33:45  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely agree. And you've got to build in those systems, you've got to build in the repeatable processes that can guide those project managers, because the project managers are going to come and go as well on the veranda and as all the PMOT team, so you've got time that industrialised tooling that people just pick up and go, Oh, that's how we do it here. And move it forward. flip off the back of that, then turn it around a little bit. What is your proudest project? PMO delivery in the in the project realm? Would you save of all your delivery say that one, I felt real pride getting out there over the over the, the line?

Unknown Speaker  34:28  
Yeah, I think the

Unknown Speaker  34:30  
there's a automotive parts retailer here in the states that was dealing with a lot of brick and mortar companies the challenge of the e commerce society we live in today. And they had asked the CMO squad to come in and help them implement that new e commerce platform to get them away from the fate of a blockbuster who went you know, died because more couldn't go on. So we were pointing centre, they had hired Accenture to be their system integrator. And they needed some assistance on the project side, and brought in the PMO squad for us to partner with Accenture and ensure that they delivered the way our customer needed. So for me taking a very well established American brand, or global brand, really, and getting them into the next generation of commerce. And transactions will always be high on our list of most proudest achievements. So thinking,

Unknown Speaker  35:36  
not necessarily

Unknown Speaker  35:39  
the deliveries

Unknown Speaker  35:41  
what would you say is your moment in a in your either running the panellists or project is is your this given you a personal pride of something you've done that isn't isn't related to the actual end game?

Unknown Speaker  35:59  
Well, this one, I'm going to help turn a different direction on this one and say we've along with a partner of mine, we've started a nonprofit organisation, to help veterans and military service members transition into civilian careers with Project Management. So getting the feedback directly from those participants in our mentoring programme that now have gone on to get careers and civilian project management, and how that mentoring they received, help them get that way, you know, to make that progress. Every day, it makes me continue and becomes more and more important than my consulting practice, because I'm touching individuals and helping them achieve the goals that they're trying to. So I, yeah, I had an email today from somebody in the programme or somebody that wants to participate in the programme. And it just, it's very personal, it's very moving. That keeps me going. It's It is so powerful to get those sorts of communications from people that we're helping on a daily basis. I'm just gonna,

Unknown Speaker  37:09  
I'm really glad you talked about that. So I was going to talk to you more about that, because

Unknown Speaker  37:13  
I had added,

Unknown Speaker  37:16  
as you see, a colleague, he was he he started that what,

Unknown Speaker  37:19  
what was the genesis of the idea? And what Where did that come from?

Unknown Speaker  37:25  
He runs a organisation called vets to PM. Eric, what is his name, and they provide training and career services to military members, and veterans. And I provide right project management consulting services, and we were partnering together on how we might be able to do business together. And we said, Listen, Eric came to me and Joe, your, your people have experienced that our veterans don't have. And you you are looking to be able to mentor folks, why not mentor veterans and active duty service members and their spouses that are trying to get into this career? And we said, Absolutely, I mean, that was like a Thursday afternoon, we had that discussion. And by Monday morning, the website was stood up. It was once we clicked on, it was such an easy thing to understand the value that we could provide. So that was, I think that was January of 2018, we started that we've had over 400 people register into the programme and that time, and really, we were a proof of concept, right? We didn't even know how this was going to go. So we ran it, his company and my company to for profit, we're both for profit companies, we ran this collectively covered all the expenses provide the people to be able to do the work. And we realised that this is bigger than what we had thought it was going to be. So we've now taken it to the next level and created a nonprofit working, we're in place right now putting the board of directors in the middle of it and Eric and I will be cofounders to ensure that it carries forward the mission that we're looking to achieve, but maybe not be in the day to day and turn that over to the board of directors and the volunteers that we're going to have that are going to help scale it to be a platform really, that can help all of those service members, veterans and spouses get the type of mentoring and assistance they need through professional support, networking and mentoring to help them get lucrative careers in the project management field.

Unknown Speaker  39:37  
Excellent. I am. Because when I was looking at the website on that, and it kind of struck me that a lot of those individuals will and part of our our role as a project managers is sometimes working under pressure and those individuals are under way more pressure than a lot of us have been in those scenarios and but also the, the organisation the the ability to work as a team and with the team and directing teams. Little like we were talking earlier is those skills are transferable once you understand the framework so that they can be transferred into. And kind of it's again, it's one of those things was what I saw it as you say you say clicked it kind of you read Daniel? Well, yeah, it's obvious that that's the thing to do. But

Unknown Speaker  40:29  
then the obvious things are the things that people notice us the other

Unknown Speaker  40:33  
way. And also they they are structured in command and mission, right. I mean, they go execute temporary endeavours to achieve a certain goal just like we do with projects, they just call it a mission. Yeah. And they get that training, it's it's they come out fully prepared, probably more than we are from, from universities and colleges, right, they had real experience. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  40:58  
And, again, to being the situation, here's the mission, here's the plan, this is how we're going to execute it, the minute you step into it, it changes in a in a battle situation or whatever, and you have to adapt. And, again, you get similar sort of things with projects during your project, your project plan is dead, the minute you put it on the piece of paper, isn't it, it's kind of it's a date. And you have to be able to work and adapt and be ready for things to change. And as that flexibility and ability to adapt is inherent in that in those roles. And in their experience.

Unknown Speaker  41:35  
And what they they may have in that experience, they're missing from the civilian side of, you know, what is it WBS? What is a project schedule, right, the civilian terminology and interactions are missing. And that's where the mentoring of a experienced project manager comes in to help them guide them through that transition and accelerate their career growth. Again, the impact was immediate, and the feedback has been so positive. It's just a great opportunity for both the manager side who's giving back of their time, it's all volunteer, nobody's paid for any of this. And then also the protege, the service member, the veteran or the spouse that's participating gets immediate reward and feedback on what they're doing to help them advance their career. It's easy, once you once you're in the middle of it, and you have some of these exchange and get the feedback. You wonder why we're not doing more of this and why it's not happening and greater scale

Unknown Speaker  42:37  
it with with you. Again, it makes me wonder whether this and I assume your your programme is us centric, obviously. It makes me think, is there anything in the UK that that does the similar sort of thing, and I'm not aware of anything that does

Unknown Speaker  42:55  
it, we're certainly us centric, as you mentioned, but we've had mentors, veterans from five different countries participating. We had a active duty deployed us service member who is in the Middle East, couldn't even tell us where he was deployed, because of the security risks. Yeah, but on his downtime, he was calling into his mentor in the states to prepare for his transition out when his role can do. So that sort of thing. When you when you start thinking about the impact and you hear those storeys, you can see the power of what the programme offers. So we're certainly us centric, but I think as we continue to grow and scale, you know the boundaries of the globe or limit, as opposed to the boundaries of the states.

Unknown Speaker  43:49  
So looking at, obviously, you do the the your podcast, and what what got you started doing that what made you decide to do the podcast obviously would have PMO squad successful business, successful career? What Why did the the the project management office hours radio show come out? And why did you do it? Like I said, we've been talking before?

Unknown Speaker  44:13  
Yeah, well, it's a bit of a fluke, really, to be honest, I had no intentions to do the show. But when I moved from Atlanta to Phoenix, a couple of years back, I was in a new city, and needed to as all companies do, right, improve your marketing and getting the word out that you're here, right to serve a new client base. And I had run into a state owner of the station business radio x here in Phoenix at a networking event. And she asked if I wanted to come on the show as a guest. So I said, of course, this would be great opportunity to go on the radio for free and let the the Phoenix community know about my company. And when the show ended, she said, Well, that was fantastic. You should think about hosting a show. I said, What I can't do that I'm a project manager, I'm not a radio host. So between her and my wife, they both kept nagging me to nagging is probably the wrong word. But they kept pushing me to try it and see how it would go. So eventually did a couple of episodes just to see how it would be and turned out that I liked it. I enjoyed it. It was fun. It was kind of a good break, from the day to day rhythms of running the company. And the guests were educating me, I was getting so much more from the guests than I was back to the community. And then I started getting people in the industry of influence. And people started reaching out to me to ask if they could be a guest on my show. So I knew we were gaining traction. And we did it live because we wanted to be something that was a little bit unique, right? There's a lot of project management podcasts out there. Yeah, but I haven't found one where they're doing them live. I mean, today we have a show where remote guests drop their connection twice. And we had to work our way through it. Right. It's it's real life. It's not something that we manufacture. And that's what project management is. And I said if I can run a project as part of a $500 million portfolio, I certainly can do a live radio show.

Unknown Speaker  46:25  
You say that, but I don't know what your thoughts are. But

Unknown Speaker  46:29  
as you know, I messed up a couple of times on getting that scheduled on this school is quite stressful just trying to get to get it all coordinated at times, isn't it?

Unknown Speaker  46:38  
Yeah, it's, it makes it real, though. right in. It's fun. And, you know, I think we've had tremendous success. We've the metrics we receive, we're getting over 200,000 plays and downloads on episodes now. I mean, it's it's exceeded my wildest imagination, right? It's, I get Constant Contact from listeners, who thanked me for the format and thanked me for bringing on a guest or asked me to have a certain type of discussion. So it's actually given me newfound energy into an industry that and the shows are nothing about me, right. It's a platform to have others come on and share their storey. So by me being a part of that is really helped give me access to, you know, different adventures and different people in different knowledge that I previously wouldn't have had.

Unknown Speaker  47:36  
Yeah, I think in my very limited time in podcasting at the moment, I've I think it's, I think it's eight, nine interviews I've done and every single one of them, including this one has been fascinating. And as you say, you learn something and it's and there's every, every person, you talk to us slightly different a slightly different storey about what their background is and how they approach things.

Unknown Speaker  48:06  
And then the other. The other part I love about the show, is we're although we're based in the US, we have guests that are from all over the world, we had, Australia, Canada, Honduras, Germany, the UK, right, we it's it's a broad spectrum, because project management, again, doesn't know the boundaries of countries, that people in India and Pakistan and Australia and US and Canada all share the same understanding of what WBSS

Unknown Speaker  48:37  
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and it appears to be that

Unknown Speaker  48:43  
there's a thing you talked about it before, there's themes. There's always themes that go through the projects. And it doesn't, as you say, like the industry's It doesn't matter what industry is, doesn't matter what country is there is always the themes that are there. And the slight

Unknown Speaker  48:58  
tweaks. So for now, I've I've almost taken this on, if I take the radio show and the mentoring, of which both of them are completely not about me, right, it's about our industry and giving back and providing a platform. That's more of my focus today than the PMO squad, of course, the PMO squads, my company, and we run that to be successful. But my personal stake by personal interest rate of how does the twilight of my career end up is tied up into those parts of the the triangular business world that I have created for myself. So it's, it's more exciting, it's more energising it's more rewarding, there's a more personal touch to it. And then at the same time, you have to put food on the table for your family. And that's the PMO squad, right, where we can go deliver, and taking all the lessons learned from the other two, and bring them into the PMO squad to ensure that we're continually improving to make sure our clients are getting the best of us. And not just what we, you know, have always been at what we're growing to be as we grow with them.

Unknown Speaker  50:07  
Yeah, I guess that within the number of interviews, you've done different guests, you've, I'm guessing you've had stuff that you've been talking to your guests, and they've talked about something, whatever it is, whether it's in a new media thing, new new tools and techniques that you've sat there and gone, we should be doing that in the most world, and it will be something completely new. I'm guessing that maybe it doesn't happen all the time. But there'll be the odd thing, I think in a different way of thinking about it.

Unknown Speaker  50:36  
Absolutely. I mean, just the, I would say probably every show, we learn something new. And maybe every two to three shows we take something away that we want to implement into the PML. Squad.

Unknown Speaker  50:51  
Yeah. Which, which as you say it just if you just did it from a thinking of it from a mercenary point of view, the the benefits of having those shows and being able to play those in and do things better within your own business. They just pay back threefold and wonderful.

Unknown Speaker  51:10  
And you know, what else we found is there are a lot of people in our industry, who have a voice but don't have a platform? Yeah, if they could just have somebody give them the exposure to share their idea, the way we deliver on projects. Maybe it matures, right? We we've all seen the data that PMI provides in their pulse of the profession, that we're kind of stagnant for a decade now about 50% project success rates. Yeah, well, what are we doing new? What are we doing different. And what I love about the show is I bring on guests who have ideas that make us think of maybe there is a better way or a different way or a new way to do something that has been around for a while. And that type of platform to give them that access to me is so powerful, full and I'm just so fortunate to be able to be the person that's pushing the buttons. But the reality is the people who are the guests are the ones who are powerful with that thinking.

Unknown Speaker  52:11  
Yeah, I think from the things I see in the industry, you've got a lot of and maybe it's the people are following whatever, but it does seem to be a lot of our emphasis now is we've, we've got some incredible tools, which means that we can, we can store up a piece of wood, and we can solve a piece of wood every time exactly how we want to sort it up.

Unknown Speaker  52:39  
And then you've got that layer that's coming on top of the

Unknown Speaker  52:44  
the emotional intelligence type of stuff and the things that every every sort of article, I read a book I read a lot, I'm always focusing on that you can do the fundamental usage of the tools. But it's the art of bit of you using those tools that were turning it into a Venus de Milo or whatever sculpture.

Unknown Speaker  53:05  
And that's the next

Unknown Speaker  53:07  
phase of it if you'd like and as you save 50% because the tools are good, but then there's that bit on top. That is the more of a project management art rather than just the discipline, if you like and, as you say, PMIAPM print all of these, these certification bodies have invested lots of time in working out what's the best way to manage your risk, what's the best way to structure your project, and they're repeatable. But there's that nuances about that terrible, fleshy thing called a human that's involved in these things that always make projects just a little bit harder. And organisations, as you said about before the organisational columns and how those organisations differ mean that you need to use different tools and different techniques and maybe a different project manager because a different project manager has a different behaviour styles. I

Unknown Speaker  54:02  
totally agree and understanding of the people again, each projects unique, each person is unique. Each team is unique. Yeah. So when we try to use standard tools in a unique setting, sometimes there's benefit. But other times we have gaps, and it's understanding how to fill those gaps in understanding the social intelligence and the human interaction component, I think that separates the good project manager from the great project manager. Yeah, and, and doing the show gives that gives us in our industry, exposure to people who are out there trying to help us move from good to great, and deliver projects and a better success rate.

Unknown Speaker  54:44  
Yeah. And that's the point, isn't it? It's you saying we've got that 50% success rate? It's moved to good. Now how did you move it on to great, isn't that right? Yeah. When you will not? Last few questions. I've got many when you're not busy doing one of the three things with your, your project, whether it's the PMO squad, that podcast or with the veterans? What what what does Joe do when he's not doing that? Besides running around after four kids and two dogs?

Unknown Speaker  55:17  
Well, that's it right. It's it's the kids and the family and kids participate in athletics now and getting them to their games and practices and being a good dad and trying to be a good husband as well. To keep us all happy and go explore the mountains here in Phoenix and do hiking and seeing sites to me that there's not much time left in the day after those three business ventures, but all of that kind of with the family.

Unknown Speaker  55:49  
So the last few questions I have here are just just the way I like to wrap it up Brittany is what was the last project podcast you listen to, besides your own?

Unknown Speaker  56:01  
Andy Kaufman's people in projects podcast?

Unknown Speaker  56:04  
Excellent. I'm speaking to Andy in a couple of weeks, I think which is going to be an interesting one. And what was the last project project management blog that you read?

Unknown Speaker  56:17  
Elizabeth herons blog, I get that I'm on her mailing list. So I read that frequently.

Unknown Speaker  56:24  
Yeah, this is a very popular one from the people I've talked to.

Unknown Speaker  56:30  
What and if you

Unknown Speaker  56:34  
I know you do a lot of mentoring for the new pm with the veterans.

Unknown Speaker  56:39  
But if you've got a pm that's out there

Unknown Speaker  56:42  
20 years in 10 1520 years into their projects, career, what would be the one top tip that you would say to them now that they should think about or consider?

Unknown Speaker  56:55  
Well, I think the experienced project manager my tip to them as give back to our profession, because our generation has a timestamp. And if we don't help those who are coming up the ranks, then we haven't done our job. Right. So for me, it's that and for the newer project managers out there, my tip would be don't sweat the small stuff. Projects are about providing value, and you don't find value within just a single risk or issue or it it's the collection. And it's the prize at the end of the project, not necessarily the individual details within the project. So make sure that you're wearing glasses that are allowing you to see the field of play completely, and not just blinders that let you see just one item.

Unknown Speaker  57:49  
Yeah, that's pretty easy. So the final question is, you have opportunity to talk to that young Joe, who's just discovered what projects exist. And you you've got that first, first job as your first project. Doing that automation system. What what one thing would you tell yourself,

Unknown Speaker  58:18  
I would probably tell myself that, be prepared for the unexpected, because you have no idea what was coming. I never thought I would be co founder of a company, co founder of a nonprofit organisation, host of a radio show slash podcast, father for move to multiple cities across the state. Be prepared for the unknown. And if you are, you can achieve the unknown. It's the limits that we placed upon ourselves that keeps us within those limits. So live a life without limits.

Unknown Speaker  59:02  
So Joe, I finished all my questions. I'm gonna let you go.

Unknown Speaker  59:07  
If people want to get in touch with you, if they

Unknown Speaker  59:11  
I'll include some stuff in the in the show notes. But what's the best way to get hold of you? If they want to find out more about you?

Unknown Speaker  59:19  
LinkedIn is great. I'm out there, you know pose PUSZ on LinkedIn or if you want to connect on my website, the PMO squad calm. And if you want to send me an email, you can send it to Joe dot pas at the PMO squad. COMM

Unknown Speaker  59:39  
printing. So again, great. Thanks for coming on the show, Joe. It's been a really entertaining and interesting conversation. And hope you have a great rest of the day.

Unknown Speaker  59:50  
Yeah, thank you so much Nigel. I appreciate it. Cheers.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai



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