n<\/p>\n
8b068e963316e1798e3c558131483265.m4a<\/p>\n
00:00:00,000 So when did you realize that you were a project manager? Was it 00:00:07,920 before you were called one? Or was it after?
\n00:00:15,760
\n00:00:23,040 Somewhere in between I think. I mean, I think the points I remember were, I was being given bigger and bigger things to do.<\/p>\n
And I was beginning to recognize, I still didn’t have the words to describe it. But then when I went on a training course,<\/p>\n
it kind of jelled for me. In fact, I was talking to another person, I’m sort of assimilating to mean experience from the accidental project management world,<\/p>\n
00:00:30,560 some time ago, and we were at the conference. And we were just 00:00:35,840 talking about this, how do we even survive?<\/p>\n
Because nobody taught us anything. And I think we survived because, I
\nthink the ones that did survive during that era, were the ones that had a kind of affinity to,<\/p>\n
00:00:45,840 a degree of control, but also I think more to do with the soft skills of
\nunderstanding the people’s side of things and the communication that’s required. [Music]<\/p>\n
00:01:05,520 Hi and welcome to the Sunday Launch Project Manager podcast for
\nSunday the 13th of August 20, 23. This week we’ve got a rerun as I’m on the holiday,<\/p>\n
00:01:14,800 or Peter Taylor, the lazy project manager. So enjoy! [Music] 00:01:22,160
\n[Music] Just a quick shout out, another way that I found that you could
\nsupport the show, the lessons, info in the show notes, is that it’s the British podcast awards this year<\/p>\n
00:01:38,320 for the 11th and 10th cuts off on the 5th of September, for what they
\n00:01:50,000 call the People’s Trace. I have no illusions that I will not win it, but<\/p>\n
being devoted for maybe getting one or less set on all of those
\nspecialised layers, or anything like that means that the discoverability
\nfor the podcast would be improved, which is always the back of getting the show out to people.<\/p>\n
00:02:04,880 So if you’re inclined to vote for me, and actually I’d probably vote for
\nothers as well, I personally voted for the social distance sports bar podcast I really enjoy. If you go along to British Pods 2023, 00:02:21,440 for all my website, so NigelCruiser.com\/BritishPods2023, and then
\nthat’ll be directed to the right page and you search for me, the Sunday Launch Project Manager, you should pop up, click on that,<\/p>\n
00:02:35,840 and then cast your votes and you’ll be verifying things like that. And
\nthen you can book for other ones as well, if you want. So if you can do that, I’d be very grateful, and tell your friends,<\/p>\n
00:02:45,120 cheers there. So I have a number of responses, affiliate links, in the
\nway that it’s set up, that have kindly allowed me to share their services really.<\/p>\n
00:03:13,280 The first one is my clean, and Mike runs PM on my PM courses, and it is a great resource for getting those fundamental service project management trained, reasonably priced,<\/p>\n
00:03:29,840 and Mike presents it in an accessible and clear manner. You can check
\nout some of his videos on his YouTube channel, and kind of give you a view of where they are.<\/p>\n
00:03:46,160 But the code for that, if you go to NigelCruiser.com\/onlinePM courses,
\nall one with a lot of case, that’ll be directed to it. There’s very different levels that you can buy, you can buy individual courses,<\/p>\n
00:04:01,120 you can buy pathways as well, if you like. And I get a kick back, oh,
\nthose, my currently shares me that, so if you do jump on and use it, I
\nhope you find it really useful. I think it has, I’ll leave that down to you,<\/p>\n
00:04:16,480 and that’s what that is, so there’s a throw-in in particular risk on that. So
\njump on that, and that again, it’s NigelCruiser.com\/onlinePM courses, and enjoy. I wanted to welcome you all to the Sunday Lunch Project podcast,<\/p>\n
00:04:37,600 and I’ve got a special guest today, a gentleman called Peter Taylor. I’m
\ngoing to read a biog from his first book, and the book that I first got
\nintroduced to Peter, and I, in fact, have a signed copy in front of me.<\/p>\n
00:04:51,760 It says, “Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the lazy project manager.”
\nDespite its title of the lazy project manager, Peter is in fact a dynamic
\nand commercially astute professional, who’s achieved notable success in project management,<\/p>\n
00:05:06,080 program management, and professional development of project managers. Lately, the head of projects are a global supplier of
\nperformance management solutions. And in addition to that, there’s a few quotes I’ve heard, which are,
\n00:05:21,920 “Perhaps the most entertaining and inspiring speaker in project management today, with over 17 books and presenting over 330 presentations around the world in 25 countries to more than 40,000
\npeople.” So Peter, I want to welcome you to the podcast, and as I say,<\/p>\n
00:05:44,320 it’s very, I’m very grateful to come along. Oh no, I’m delighted. I’m
\ndelighted. I’m reading Barry’s by that first kind of introduction on the ground, so that was a, that was a PR thing I put together about 10 years ago, that dynamically<\/p>\n
00:05:55,600 commercially astute, “Oh my goodness me.” Yeah, these days I just say
\nI’m a speaker in a project manager, it’s a lot simpler. Yeah, I get the
\nbook with the “Bee Lazy” from Peter at NONIT, and I’d forgotten that I
\ngot it signed by you. It’s that long ago. Yeah, wow. So that, as you know, I’ve pinned you<\/p>\n
00:06:16,160 a few questions, and I kind of want to get behind who Peter is, really,
\nand with some of the interviews on here, I want to try and get a little bit of a variation around people’s history and how they go into project management, because I think it’s an interesting and varied subject matter,<\/p>\n
00:06:32,080 really. So I’ve kind of given you a bunch of questions that I’ve sent there, where were you born, and where you live now? So kind of, do
\nyou want to give us a little background around those? Sure, okay. So I was born in, in the UK, I was born in Kent, I was born in Pembury, actually, I was born<\/p>\n
00:06:49,040 in Pembury Hospital, and that’s interesting because my aunt still works
\nin Pembury Hospital all these years later, and actually my partner was
\nborn in the same hospital. Quite a few years between us, but that’s one thing we’ve discovered we have in common. So I’m from Kent, I spent very little part<\/p>\n
00:07:05,680 of my life living in Kent. Most of my life living either where I am now,
\nwhich is in Barkshire, so I live in Sandhurst, in Barkshire. I lived here
\nfrom my formative years up to my mid-20s, and I returned just over two
\nyears ago to the same area, but I lived just down the road from where my
\n00:07:23,360 parents lived. But I spent the 25 years up in the Midlands, well, you
\nknow, just at sort of around the Coventry area. So that’s kind of my
\npersonal journey. I mean, obviously, as you said, I’ve traveled the world
\nin speaking, etc, but I’ve never lived in the UK, so that’s the kind of two major<\/p>\n
00:07:40,480 locations. All right, cool. And you mentioned your partner there, with a
\nlittle bit of family and background there. Yeah, so, yes, I’m with the lady
\nwho’s Julia at now, and yeah, so we have a family between us. I mean,
\nwe actually don’t have any children together, but we do have a lot of children<\/p>\n
00:07:57,280 between us. So we in fact have nine children. It makes Christmas and
\nother events very, very interesting. So we have nine children, ranging
\nfive girls, four boys ranging from 15 all the way up to 31. So, yeah, quite a good range there. So Christmas is a big project in itself then?<\/p>\n
00:08:20,000 Oh, yeah. Well, I’ve retired the corner with a nice glass of wine and
\nwhat’s the chaos into it. They’re pretty much self-sufficient, actually. It’s
\nquite interesting. So they make a lot of noise, but there are a lot of fun as well. Great. Brilliant. So you said you grew up in the<\/p>\n
00:08:34,240 Barca area. And so one of the things that intrigues me is kind of what people who are project managers wanted to be when they grew up. And I know some some project managers have yet to grow up, but what
\nwas it? What was your, what did you want to be? Yes, interesting. I’m actually meeting people<\/p>\n
00:08:51,920 these days who grow, growing up wanting to be project managers. It’s
\ngoing to, in my day, that was, well, it didn’t exist. I mean, it just wasn’t spoken about. So, well, at school they told me I should be in the
\naccountant, which fortunately I wasn’t. What I want to grow when I grow up? I guess the best<\/p>\n
00:09:08,720 thing I could say I wanted to be was what kind of my sort of fantasy was
\nto be a writer. Now, clearly I wasn’t thinking about being a writer of business books, but I wanted to be an author of some form. So that was an overarching one. Beyond that, I was just generally confused about what life
\n00:09:24,320 was going to offer. I mean, my best friend is one of those people who
\nhad the utter clarity. He wanted to become a construction engineer from
\nthe moment I met him, really, you know, very early age. And you know,
\nhe’s done that and he’s been very successful. In fact, the United States has been a major<\/p>\n
00:09:40,160 construction company in the US. So he was at a path and I had
\ncompletely no path and it was kind of, that’s kind of how I just fell into project management, really. All right. So, going on to that was the project management. This kind of, I’m guessing you didn’t<\/p>\n
00:09:54,800 go to university and have a project management degree and that sort of
\nthing because I’m, I kind of know, rather you’re similar age to me and I
\ndon’t think there was existed then. No, no. So my education was fairly
\ntypical. I mean, I, you know, I did my sort of, I would levels and I<\/p>\n
00:10:10,480 then started doing some A levels and I was rude. I wasn’t educating me
\nmind you at that point, as far too much of a distracted rebel, I suppose. So I quit school and I went off and worked for a year to make some money and then I went back to college and cram my A levels in one year because<\/p>\n
00:10:26,000 that’s about as much time as I could bother to give to that kind of
\nactivity. And then I was that first job then. The first job was, I mean, I
\njust, I spent a summer doing odd jobs basically. I joined a recruitment
\nagency and did everything from packaging boxes to kicking parcels of trains and things<\/p>\n
00:10:44,320 like that. I would say my first real job was I joined a company because I
\nshared a house with a few other guys and they worked in this company.
\nIt was part of the aeronautical defense system suppliers and they were
\nrecruiting like crazy and I joined and my first real job was a progress chase.<\/p>\n
00:11:02,880 I sat there on a printed circuit board assembly section and I had to basically make sure, well, yeah, my job was supposed to know where
\nall the work orders were in a given time. I wasn’t very good at it, to be
\nhonest. So I was, I was a bit too lazy in the wrong way at that point and it didn’t really
\n00:11:18,800 inspire me. But that was my first job and eventually I kind of, then I fell
\ninto something I kind of got the hang of which was stock control, stock management, warehouse management and then it kind of moved on
\nfrom there. All right. So then your education, you’re getting back and did some more studying<\/p>\n
00:11:37,680 you said? Well, I did something, I did some related to the work I was
\ndoing and then it kind of, you know, what, what clicked for me was, you know, I joined a company, a smaller company at that point and they
\nhappened to be deploying an MRP, material, it’s planning solution, but those who might remember<\/p>\n
00:11:56,240 MRP before ERP or MRP, M-R-P2 then ERP for those. And the IT
\ndirector of that company had basically customized the hell out of this particular solution and then moved on to start his own company and
\nthey were trying to basically deploy the next generation of software in a kind of vanilla format<\/p>\n
00:12:14,480 and they needed someone to do a comparison. And for whatever
\nreason I had some spare time, I showed them some aptitude to do this,
\nI had some structure and discipline and around it I’ll produce some nice
\nreports. And then from there, I kind of, I spent time working with the consultants that came<\/p>\n
00:12:31,840 in with us and I realized that those, those guys coming in, we seemed to drive much better cars than I had and they seemed to have much
\nbetter suits than I was wearing and therefore I decided that was the job
\nI should join and I feel like I kind of fell into it at that point. All right. So that was your<\/p>\n
00:12:48,240 step into a career path then really. Yeah, so that was my career path and but I was at that point I was a manufacturing consultant, but I
\njoined a company and I can look back and I can look see it now. I mean
\nI can see that I was, this was my first project because I was doing some work for one<\/p>\n
00:13:06,080 of the home computer companies at the time, one of the many that kind
\nof exploded onto the scene. And they had this brilliant technique of
\nsales and repairs because they were literally, it was the heyday, they were number one in the France and I think they were number three in the UK
\n00:13:25,840 or at computers at the time and they were selling thousands of, actually thousands and thousands of these things because a lot of, yeah, a percentage of them came back because people said they didn’t work
\nand that was quite possible but the company who decided their policy on this was actually,<\/p>\n
00:13:40,960 it was the users were idiots and therefore we would record the serial number. We put them in a brand new box and sell them to someone
\nelse and if that second person then sent them back we’d say actually
\nit’s not the user there is a problem in which case we put them in a big pile at the far<\/p>\n
00:13:56,080 end of this warehouse and send a brand new one out and everybody
\nwas happy but suddenly I realized actually now we had 10,000 of these
\nboxes in the corner and actually that was a lot of money so they said
\nwe need to repair them so my first project I would say was to design a very simple repair,<\/p>\n
00:14:10,960 a test and repair line it was such a simple project really because all the
\nresources were in one place I think I had to walk up the road to a shop
\nto buy a couple of pieces of equipment and that was it but it’d been the people were there, the desk, everything we needed, etc was there,<\/p>\n
00:14:25,280 it’s just a matter of putting together this structure and process which I
\ndid fairly quickly. I know people called me a project manager, it wasn’t
\ndecided it was a project but I can look back and go actually that for me was my very first project, very simple but it kind of gave me some insight<\/p>\n
00:14:42,320 into the approaches that seemed to work for me and it was many years,
\nit was five years after that I think I was called a project manager and eight years after that I was ever sent on a training course to be a project manager, so when did you realise that you were a project manager?<\/p>\n
00:14:59,040 Was it before you were called one? Or was it after? Somewhere in
\nbetween I think, I think the points I remember were, I was being given bigger and<\/p>\n
00:15:09,200 bigger things to do and I was beginning to recognise, I still didn’t have
\nthe words to describe it but then when I went on a training course it kind
\nof jelled for me and in fact I was talking to another person of similar age to me in experience from the accidental project management world
\n00:15:25,200 some time ago and we were at the conference and we were just talking
\nabout this, how do we even survive because nobody taught us anything
\nand I think we survived because I think the ones that did survive during that era were the ones that had a kind of<\/p>\n
00:15:38,560 affinity to a degree of control but also I think more to do with the soft skills of understanding the people’s either things and the communication that’s required and then when I went on the course it gave me almost the mechanics of project management and I was like, oh wow, I understand that,<\/p>\n
00:15:54,480 that would have been useful to understand etc. So I would say somewhere in that part of period I kind of evolved into a project
\nmanager and took it from there. And did you sit there back there and think, right, oh I am doing this project management training,<\/p>\n
00:16:10,320 I am doing this, this is what I am going to be doing for the foreseeable
\nfuture or was it a case of this seems to be the right thing to do at this
\ntime? I think the latter, the right thing to do at this time, I mean, I’m one thing I’m terrible at is<\/p>\n
00:16:22,320 having any, the worst interview question for me, it’s a long time since
\nI’ve really been interview but the worst interview question for me is,
\nwhere do you see yourself in five years? I haven’t got a clue, I’ve never
\nhad that kind of projection of my life, it’s like this is interesting,<\/p>\n
00:16:36,240 I think that is where it might take you and really writing a book was kind
\nof like that, I died in no idea, I thought I’d write a book, I write a book
\nand here we are. So I won’t ask that question and I’ll cross that off my list.<\/p>\n
00:16:49,200 So you just mentioned one of the things that the fact that you first
\nproject you remembered being that, an unofficial project if you like. You talk about the sounds like you had the MRP organization and the working with the desktop supplies, what other industries have you worked<\/p>\n
00:17:10,320 across? I’ve worked in most industries over the years, I mean, I haven’t
\nworked in construction, I would never clue what to do in construction
\nand I haven’t worked in sort of space, design, or anything like that. But
\npretty much every other basic industry, whether it be pharmaceutical
\n00:17:24,080 banking or consulting services or anything like that, that’s one of the beauties of a consultative type world, you touch many points, my
\nbackground is in manufacturing, it’s a long time since I’ve actually dedicated to manufacturing, but that is my background. But I like touching many, many<\/p>\n
00:17:45,360 industries, etc. They’re all interesting and everything I get involved in, when I publish my first book, I kind of annoyed the hell out of my
\npublishers because all I wanted to do was learn about the publishing
\nindustry and I turned up at shows and things like that just to understand it<\/p>\n
00:18:01,280 and they were quite bewildered that anybody would actually want to do
\nthat, then went used to it authors doing that, but that’s me, I like to learn
\nit, and it’s been a lot of time in retail as well, and that’s a fascinating
\nworld, that’s where I am right now in retail. And again, it’s fascinating<\/p>\n
00:18:16,880 to learn the dynamics of that very dynamic business right now, retail is
\njust changing rapidly, so that’s what excites me. Yeah, I remember all
\nthese different industries have their uniqueness, I remember working in a, with an organisation where I was doing a financial<\/p>\n
00:18:34,480 planning system and they pointed out that they were part of the Dexon’s
\ngroup and it was a case of they had the change freeze on any of their IT systems from the middle of November until the end of January and it’s kind of like, well, why? And then I kind of dropped, the penny dropped is<\/p>\n
00:18:50,400 that’s their biggest time when they get any money in it all, so they didn’t
\nwant anything, if they couldn’t take payments at a shop, they’re massive
\nimpact on their business. Oh yeah, absolutely, the golden quarter, we
\nwould have gone through that, etc, and that’s the kind of things you learn<\/p>\n
00:19:04,640 about, you know, it’s okay, it’s fascinating, so I understand the pattern of the projects that we’ve got underway at the moment and what works and what doesn’t work and when do you leave them alone and when do you try and make differences for them? Yeah, yeah, so talking about your projects then,
\n00:19:17,760 and maybe the ones you’re on now, and although, what is the largest,
\nand I’m not asking for stats and details to verify that it is the largest,
\nwell, what would you say was your largest or naliest project? Well, the
\nmanagement, what did you learn on it? I pretty much learned everything that was really,<\/p>\n
00:19:38,400 you know, really practical and this thing, so this was, it was nearly three
\nyears in the end, it was, it was in the steel stock holding industry, it was deployment of a kind of, this company had many depots all over the
\nplace where people could go and order steel and all the other stuff that goes,<\/p>\n
00:19:56,320 you know, they’re kind of heavy metal kind of structure material, and
\nyou know, this, this was a, this was the controlled rollout of an MRP
\nsystem with financials and everything, it was complex, it was difficult,
\nthey were going through a transformation, you know, so it actually was,<\/p>\n
00:20:15,840 was very challenging and we got into also distribution requirements plan as well, and they had all the warehouses and restocking and
\nordering, and it was, it was, it was fascinating for that point of view, but
\nit took a long, long time and and kind of what I learned from this was up so many lessons that,<\/p>\n
00:20:34,480 you know, it, you know, it went well, it went as actually long, wrong, it
\nkind of recovered, it was just, it went almost legal at one point and then
\nit went to a one to finish, et cetera, so there was everything. I think,
\nwell, I really, the key, I think two things I learned on this one is, I<\/p>\n
00:20:49,120 thought of a say, I was summarized, is one is the important, I mean, I’m
\nnot a person, I really hate people who just audit trail for the sake of it, but I kept good records and actually, you know, when we had the bad
\ntimes, the build, it used to go back and reference clearly, conversations, decisions,<\/p>\n
00:21:04,160 et cetera, so, you know, I really don’t like, you know, I, and people would joke about me, but, you know, I have no emails in my inbox or
\nanything and I don’t know, it’s story emails because it’s in the moment
\nfor me and it’s, it’s a conflict of conversational thing, not a kind of audit trail,
\n00:21:16,720 but I do keep records in, in critical ones, so that, that proves very
\nvaluable to me, I think, the second thing, which is, was, was learning
\nabout the kind of dynamics of the users, because one of the big selling
\npoints on this, this solution we were putting in was that we would make life much<\/p>\n
00:21:35,120 faster for the people who used it, because the old system was staggerantly slow, you know, they, you know, imagine some guys
\ncomes in, they’ve ordered some, some material, it’s being loaded up on
\nthe lorry right now and, you know, and they stand there tapping their fingers and banging and<\/p>\n
00:21:49,040 et cetera, because they’re waiting for the system to catch up with the order process and payment, and this was brilliant. So when we deployed the first, you know, 10 or so of these depots, et cetera, service desks, et cetera, you know, everybody was delighted, you know, but there was a teething problem,<\/p>\n
00:22:04,000 training problems, et cetera, but everybody was delighted because it was, it was like lightning speed compared to the old system. What I
\ndidn’t anticipate was that halfway through the deployments of about 40 of these, these locations. Of course, the old system was no longer burdened by all these<\/p>\n
00:22:18,560 major depots, because we rolled them out quickly. So the old system
\nwas going at lightning speed, and nobody understood why we had, they had to change at all. So, you know, learning about the fact change
\nimpacts people in different ways, and you have to anticipate a lot, I think was kind of one<\/p>\n
00:22:31,040 of the, one of the other big messages or big lessons I learned from that
\nexperience, to anticipate the impact on people and actually projects, the
\nlonger they are, the more things changed during the project. Yeah, I can
\nsee how that can frustrate people, especially if they’re moving on to a new one<\/p>\n
00:22:47,840 that it’s subtly different, the perception can be difficult on user
\nexperience, kind of. So looking at, I don’t know whether it would drop
\nwithin this project, would it, would watch your biggest screw up from a project point of view, and what, and I hopefully you would
\n00:23:06,720 have learnt something from it. Well, I mean, yeah, you’ve got lazy
\nproject manager, that is an entire book of screw ups, which, unless as
\nI’ve learned, which is one of the things people tell me they like about
\nthe book, when it’s short, too, it’s funny, and three, it’s actually got honest lessons,<\/p>\n
00:23:21,600 and it was most project management books at that time, which is
\ntheoretical masterpieces of perfection, which I don’t think this really helps people. I mean, my biggest screw up, I mean, there’s just so
\nmany, I think, that you can go through in that one. I mean, I think, I mean, the one I’m going to touch<\/p>\n
00:23:42,160 on is, was a game, it was from that project, the big project, it was,
\nrealizing the kind, was it, was it, was it a screw up as such? It was, I
\ncompletely underestimated the influence of a particular stakeholder in
\nthis one, and I can’t go to too much detail on it, but the point is,<\/p>\n
00:24:00,400 this particular person wanted a piece of functionality, and we kept
\nsaying that’s not in the contract, well, I kept saying it’s not in the
\ncontract, it’s not in the scope, we talked about it, we didn’t do it, et
\ncetera, and, and they were so nice about it every single time, because this would happen every<\/p>\n
00:24:13,200 few months, they can’t have a chat with me over a coffee or raise it at a
\nsteering meeting or whatever, and every time we, I’d, I’d, I’d be buff it
\nand go, “I remember this, you know, I can’t say their name, obviously, but you know, Mr. X, do you remember this?” We talked about this, “Oh, yes, yes, I remember that.”<\/p>\n
00:24:27,520 I mean, we’re right at the very end, and there was a major milestone
\nhad to be signed off, and it was, it was a tough old contract, because if
\nthey didn’t sign this milestone off, they basically had the, the right to go
\nback and try and reclaim all of the money that we’d already, I mean, those days,<\/p>\n
00:24:39,680 you know, revenue recognition was very different, you know, the
\nmoment the, the sort of paper that was signed, we think we actually, in, basically, set an invoice from about 80 percent of the revenues or
\nthings, and that, we can’t do that now, obviously, but, right at the very end, he,
\n00:24:54,400 he basically just dug his heels in, and, and, you know, this guy was,
\nwas, wasn’t a very aimable, wonderful person. He was very influential because he was the nephew of the, a founder of the organization, he
\nhad gazillion shares, etc. And we had to do it in the end, we had to do it, and we had to do it,<\/p>\n
00:25:12,080 our own cost, etc. And it wasn’t, you know, he added another couple of months in the projects, which, you know, on that, on that scale of
\nproject, maybe not so critical, but I did, it was an excruciating sense of,
\nI didn’t truly anticipate or understand what this guy could do if you wanted to,<\/p>\n
00:25:28,480 and he was so nice about it, you know, I almost apologized it, you
\nknow, but, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s understandable, stakeholder, it’s, it’s
\ncritical, really is. Yeah. Yeah, and they don’t, they don’t necessarily need
\nto be shouting and banging a desk to the, the, not supportive thing.<\/p>\n
00:25:43,600 No, I mean, because I’m, look, in contrast, there was the, there was the, you know, the son of the devil who was the IT director who was
\nalways banging his fists and demanding stuff, and, you know, actually everybody, including the company members from the board, you know, got board with him in the<\/p>\n
00:25:55,440 end and, and the kind of ignored him. So yes, they say it’s the quiet
\nones. That’s a fair point. So flipping it, let’s move back to being a bit
\nmore positive on these. What would you say was your proudest project
\ndelivery? You know, can I cheat and say, well, actually finishing my first book,<\/p>\n
00:26:13,440 I guess, oh, yeah, yeah, it’s a, I know, having no done a couple that I
\nknow what the project it is now. Yes, yeah. I mean, Chris, it was, it was completely unknown for me. And it was like, well, I wanted to do a
\nbook. I wanted to do it right, a book, because I thought it would support my<\/p>\n
00:26:28,480 speaking. And that’s really the advice I was given. So, you know, I was
\nvery fortunate. I found a publisher who were willing to publish this crazy
\ntitle book called the laser project manager. But I had a very, what they, what they was interested, they came back to me and they said, look,
\n00:26:42,480 they were a very small publishing house. They said, well, one of our
\nbooks is, we’re not going to go ahead with it. So there is a, there’s like a
\ntwo month window. So we could actually publish it this year. But can
\nyou write it? Can you get a manuscript in like eight weeks? Of course, I said, yes.<\/p>\n
00:26:58,160 The fact that I did much faster than that because I had a lot, I mean, to
\nbe fair, I had a lot of thoughts behind it. The website I built as stuff put
\ntogether. So it was, it wasn’t that onerous, but it’s like, okay, yes. And I didn’t, you know, I had an idea, I had to write a book. And I just,<\/p>\n
00:27:14,000 you know, basically locked myself in my room. I was posting notes
\neverywhere and bits of paper and cans of energy drinks and the like.
\nAnd I shut myself away for just over a week to produce the first sort of draft of it. And then I was just in despair because it was 10,000,<\/p>\n
00:27:31,440 when it’s short from what they wanted. And I could run out of things to
\nsay and, you know, all that. And but eventually, you know, it came out
\nand, you know, I was very fortunate. It was very successful as a result.
\nSo, you know, that was a, that was a project. And I, and I actually did a kind of retrospectively<\/p>\n
00:27:48,240 afterwards and kind of, you know, could look at it and go, well, if Peter,
\nif you’d actually thought about this as a bit more of a project rather than
\njust sitting there staring at a screen, then that’s actually, you might have structured this a bit better and done something different. So,<\/p>\n
00:27:59,360 yeah, that’s probably my proudest moment is that it existed. And
\nobviously, since then, obviously very proud on the success it’s had. So
\nkind of a link to that really is what, what, what made you start the writing and the blogging and the speaking, I think you alluded to<\/p>\n
00:28:15,120 there that you were looking to do speaking. And then you just outcast
\nand the, the array of things that you do nowadays. Yes, I mean, it all
\ncame out from, from all that really. So, you know, I was, I’d worked with
\na gentleman who I dedicated the book to actually and I’d worked with him in a number<\/p>\n
00:28:30,800 of companies and we actually worked in a couple more companies after
\nthat. And the, the, all, picked off with he basically said, well, I think it’s
\ntime for me to move on, you know, he would run professional services,
\nyou know, globally or whatever and he always recognized and need for someone
\n00:28:45,280 to oversee the kind of project community. And this is before PMO’s existed, you know, we had a centre of excellence in a community of
\nproperties, et cetera. He said, well, I think in moving on, what are you
\ngoing to do next? I said, well, I kind of still have what to do here and I kind of<\/p>\n
00:28:58,240 enjoy it, but, you know, I want to do a bit more speaking. I kind of enjoy
\nthat. And that’s when he insulted me and said, you know, you’re really
\ngood at this, but you’re the leastest person I’ve ever met. And that’s
\nkind of where the letter of achievement has come from. So I kind of had then had what turned<\/p>\n
00:29:10,880 out to be a brand in the end. I didn’t realise that. So, it was like, well,
\nokay, a book, a book would help me speak. Right, okay, I write a book and I was very lucky and I got a publisher and we produced a book.
\nAnd actually it was, I, I, I was grateful in there because one of those publishing deals,<\/p>\n
00:29:27,840 which was joint risk. So basically said, yeah, we’re probably sure book, but we need to just buy X number of books, which was quite a big
\nnumber at a rate. And of course, I said, yes, I would say anything at
\nthat point, you know, sell my children, whatever it’s like, I’m going to be an author,<\/p>\n
00:29:42,240 it’s fantastic. So when my, when my four sample copies turned out, it
\nwas very excited. And when the lorry turned out with the shipment for
\nmy garage is like, it was like, okay, I need to get really these. How am I
\ngoing to do that? Well, I’m going to hit the road. I’m going to start<\/p>\n
00:29:56,160 speaking. And obviously nobody paid me in those days. So I did, you
\nknow, PMI events, like the APM events, stuff like that, British computer,
\nsociety events. I like also, I chose along a load of books and sold them.
\nAnd, you know, within a fairly short period of time, I managed to get<\/p>\n
00:30:11,040 rid of all the books and actually all of some more. So that was really good. But like, you know, it kind of kickstarted me that, and it’s
\nsomething that’s quite common these days, you know, and I’m sure you
\nknow, this, the, you know, publishers are really kind of good if you, if you, but they
\n00:30:24,640 also expect authors to do a promotion themselves, etc. So I tried
\neverything. And I, you know, the website was there and I’ve been much
\nimproved over time. I started blogging and that seemed to work. And, you know, obviously I did things, you know, extraction of book or articles based on the principles of<\/p>\n
00:30:41,600 the book. That was quite popular. I gave it a go at a podcast and I was very excited when a few people started subscribing. And then, you know, astonished when I had my first thousand people kind of, you
\nknow, listening to the podcast and it’s gone on since then. And I would try many things.<\/p>\n
00:30:59,280 There’d been the latest project manager, e-learning course, you know,
\nI’ve tried sending the books online, anything and everything to kind of promote market, etc. and get my, my self out there. And, you know,
\nobviously over time that first year of speaking for free in the UK turned into my first invitation<\/p>\n
00:31:14,480 to go abroad and then it’s a kind of, it’s now it’s a mixture, you know, I
\ndo some kind of giving back to the community if you like and it keeps me in practice as well and I like going to these events and some, obviously people paint me forward, the larger ones, etc. So,<\/p>\n
00:31:27,280 that’s kind of really how it came about. And it’s astonishingly it’ll be 10
\nyears in May this year. I’ve been actually doing that. Yeah, and I know
\nTudor and I was looking at the book earlier, noticed that it was the copy right on it was 2009 and it kind of seemed 2009,<\/p>\n
00:31:42,720 seemed so long ago, but only yesterday as well. So it’s really strange.
\nYeah, I know, it’s, I know, maybe it’s just age feeling. Yeah, I guess so.
\nAnd that’s kind of, I go back to the early point, if someone said to me,
\nwhat are you going to be doing in five or 10 years? I wouldn’t say, well,<\/p>\n
00:31:59,360 I’ll have written, well, actually, I’m just under the process of, you know,
\nwriting my 19th and 20th book. I would never have been as vicious that I would have been happy with, you know, the book, if you like, you
\nknow, I just couldn’t imagine that 10 years later that to a degree, I would be known
\n00:32:18,960 to a degree, I’ve been successful. And, you know, I have the
\nopportunity to write and speak and 25 countries around the world. It’s
\njust, it’s been amazing. Yeah. Still waiting for that call for Iceland
\nthough. Absolutely. Thank you for that plug. I am Dechland Weissland. They got very close<\/p>\n
00:32:35,120 at one point. It’s a very nice people with long surnames from Weissland.
\nSo, Iceland, if you’re listening, I am desperate to come to Iceland and speak. Yeah, I’m not sure my, my listenership is that wide at the
\nmoment. Maybe it will be wonderful. So, so, talking about books, talking about,<\/p>\n
00:32:53,200 obviously, you, you, uh, producing your books, but just a, what’s the last
\nproject book that you read? Um, I’ve just started, actually. So, one of
\nthe things that’s nice is the fact that lots of people send me books these days to read. And I, I, I consciously took December and most of January off to<\/p>\n
00:33:11,440 go and read other books. Yeah. So, I’ve just, I’ve got a pile next to me
\nright on my windowsill right now. And the top one is the one that a lady
\ncalled Ruth Peers sent me, which I know, and I’ve seen Ruth on, okay,
\nbe approachable. Be approachable, be approachable to Vater and a lot of the secrets of<\/p>\n
00:33:26,800 strength based project management. So, I’ve just literally started that
\none. Um, so, you know, I don’t have, I don’t have a view. Um, I’ve just finished the chapter on an accidental project manager, so, uh, I
\nrecognize a lot of that. Um, so that’s currently what I’m reading. So, we’ll see where that<\/p>\n
00:33:40,560 one goes. And then I’ll move down that I’ve actually got eight books to
\nread. So, um, I need to crack on with those ones. Yeah, I was chatting
\nover, I think it was over LinkedIn with Ruth on, see if I could get her on
\nthis podcast as well. So, that would be really good. Well, yeah, you can tell you, you know,<\/p>\n
00:33:55,680 you know me and if she wants a good review to get on your podcast, I’ll
\ntry that, bro. So, um, so again, similar sort of thing, the podcast and
\nblogs, what, what do you listen to? What are you, or what do you read that you find, and fix or like, sparks your project management? Um,
\n00:34:12,800 yeah, I’ll be in trouble. Yeah, I’ll be honest, on podcasts, I haven’t, um, I
\nhaven’t listened to many podcasts for a long time. I mean, you know,
\nCourtney, this fiction as one was a little favor of mine. Any other few
\nothers I would dip in and out of, but I haven’t listened to podcast for a while, and that’s<\/p>\n
00:34:30,960 probably partly down the phone. I’m not doing a huge amount of
\ncommuting these days, which I used to do. Blogs, yes, and I, you know,
\nI’m not particularly a follower of blogs or writers, but what flies out at
\nme, if I see something on LinkedIn that’s intriguing, I, you know, I’m a classic sort of, right, okay,<\/p>\n
00:34:49,520 well, you’ve got 30 seconds, and if it hooks me, I’ll read more on it. And
\nthat’s kind of where I go with it, or, you know, if I’ve been talking to
\nsomeone about particular topic or I have a conference coming up that’s
\nthemed in a certain way, some things will leap out. So I’m a very heavy LinkedIn user,<\/p>\n
00:35:03,760 and you know, and I enjoy some, there are some good after-goo blogs
\nout there. So I don’t have a particular affinity to anybody, but I like lots
\nof people, and I’m more interested by the actual specific blog article
\nitself. Yeah, okay, cool, cool. So just, you mentioned that you’re, you’ve got your<\/p>\n
00:35:22,320 19th and your 20th book in progress in a moment. I know you, I think
\nyou’re, it must be your 18th, then the presentation on presentations came out. Was it November time, October time? Yeah, that one, yes,
\nthat’s, because what are my favourite ones? Because I mean, I’ve done a lot<\/p>\n
00:35:37,840 of presentation, you asked lots of questions, and so I put together this crazy thing called the presentation on presentations, which is 60
\nminutes of how to be a good presenter, and all the bad things you can
\ndo. And of course, there were some notes of it, and then it became a cover one<\/p>\n
00:35:50,160 day workshop, and then, and I thought, well, this is actually the basics
\nof a book, so let’s get that out the way. And that’s, that’s one of the
\nbeauties of the world these days in publishing, I’ve sort of digressed it a
\nlittle bit, but, you know, that I have books are published by, you know, the regular
\n00:36:04,960 sort of publishers, but also you can self-publish so easy through Amazon. So there are some books I can just churn out there and go,
\nyou know, I can tick that, I’ve done that, it’ll be useful, I can sell a few of
\nthose, or people might be interested. So that’s what that one is, and now<\/p>\n
00:36:18,720 currently I’m working on two books, and, you know, they’re both with
\ntraditional publishers, and they’re extremely different, and they’re going
\nto take a while to do really, but I’m quite excited about both of them,
\nthey’re very, both very different. One is to do with project management, and one<\/p>\n
00:36:34,320 isn’t to do with project management, so that itself makes it different and
\ninteresting. Cool, cool, so we get, we get to see them later in the year
\nor early next year. I’ll imagine next year, you know, these, these, with
\nthe drafts will hit the publishers mid year, so they typically take at<\/p>\n
00:36:48,720 these six months to actually put them through their little processing sausage machine, and they’ll come out in 2020. All right, cool,
\nexcellent. So I’ve got a couple of final questions on this, it’s kind of
\nokay, and mix really is one of them is what your, what would be your top tip to a seasoned<\/p>\n
00:37:07,360 PM that’s out there these days? Aside from by all your books, but, you
\nknow, well, obviously, this season they’ve already read all my books,
\nyou know, that fair enough. Yeah, that, and you know, one of the things
\nI’ve met, and it’s interesting, so, you know, obviously I run, I run PMOs, and have<\/p>\n
00:37:21,600 run PMOs for years, and one of the things I always differentiate senior
\nproject managers are not, I mean, to degree it is about their experience,
\ntheir capability to scale a project, the complexity of project they’ve delivered them managed successfully, but the other thing I measure, and this is my<\/p>\n
00:37:37,680 challenge back to seasoned project managers is share, I mean share
\nyour knowledge with other people, and, you know, yes, part of what I do
\nis very commercial part, what I do is obviously for me, my family, and
\nthe income, and et cetera, but I also do quite a bit of stuff to kind of try and give
\n00:37:53,520 a little bit back to the community, and, you know, that’s what I like to see in project managers, every single project manager whose
\nseasoned has a story to tell, and they may, they may want to tell it in
\ndifferent ways. I mean, we’ll have their strengths and weaknesses in a way we want to<\/p>\n
00:38:07,040 communicate it, but even if it’s a very simple blog article, if it’s a very,
\nyou know, LinkedIn, one line, right, or a tweet, or anything like that, it is,
\nthere are so many opportunities to share, and there are so many people joining the profession, and it’s great, and they are, yeah, we’d<\/p>\n
00:38:25,600 style off-wheel, I guess there are a lot of people who intend to be
\nproject managers, and they take it degrees, et cetera, but they actually
\nneed that kind of practical advice as well. So I think my top tip is like, if
\nyou’ve learnt this much, you’ve learnt something that’s valuable to other people,<\/p>\n
00:38:38,720 so don’t keep it yourself, you know, share it with the green beans.
\nExactly, sort of flip side of that, then is the final question of you’ve,
\nyou’ve got one, one presentation slide, one presentation slide, you’re allowed to time travel to see young<\/p>\n
00:38:56,960 Peter Winnie’s doing that first repair line project, yeah? What would you, what would be on that slide you tell him about project
\nmanagement? It’s something I’ve talked about a lot, so it’s very simple and it’s two words, and I was very fortunate I was given these two words, this two word advice,<\/p>\n
00:39:12,960 the guy I worked for, I know, back in his early days, he knew, as far as I know, he knew nothing about projects or project management, we were
\nall consultants effectively, but he came to me and he said, look, you
\nknow, this is what you’re doing, and he said, Peter, there’s a simple guy that I have,<\/p>\n
00:39:29,360 which is no surprises, yeah? You can scrub as much as you like within
\nrecent, and if you come to me and tell me about it, we’ll work together
\nand try and find a way to resolve it, he said, but if something lands on
\nmy desk that you haven’t told me about, and it’s a problem, and it’s something
\n00:39:45,280 that you’re responsible for, I, it’s a surprise, then we’ll be having a very
\ndifferent conversation. And I think that’s really at the heart of project management, project management is working with this crazy, dynamic,
\nchanging, complex, multi-person, multi-resource, multi-issue type world over a<\/p>\n
00:40:05,520 period of time, and actually the project management’s job is to try and elevate themselves to a point of trying to anticipate as much as
\npossible, and everything is impossible, clearly. But the more you can
\nelevate, and one of the biggest weaknesses I see in image-your-project managers is they get so<\/p>\n
00:40:23,840 dragged down into the weeds that they kind of forget there, you know,
\nI’m offering supporting your project team and getting involved and not
\nbeing a loop remote resource, but I see it so often, they get dragged
\ndown to so much detail, they never spend the time going, hang on, let me just look<\/p>\n
00:40:38,320 at this, how’s the project going? Are we heading the right direction? Is
\nthere something, you know, is this project titanic heading for an iceberg
\nover there potentially? It’s that kind of thing. So, you know, I think a
\nslide that just says no surprises is extremely, it worked for me anyway,<\/p>\n
00:40:51,760 and I think it’s extremely good advice. Brilliant, brilliant. Well Peter, I’ve
\ncome to the end of my questions, but I could probably listen to you for
\nmuch longer. If people want to hear more about you, get hold of your
\nbooks, where’s the best place they can get hold of for finite details?<\/p>\n
00:41:12,160 Yeah, I’m in the website, www.thelazeprojectmanager.com is the best
\nplace to go to and I want LinkedIn and I want Twitter and, you know, people just can connect me that way. I love connecting to people on
\nLinkedIn particularly, and yeah, I’m out there. That’s brilliant. Okay. Well, that’s it. Thank you<\/p>\n
00:41:29,760 very much again. I maybe not said it at the beginning, but a little bit of a
\nfanboy from getting the book and you’re a bit of an inspiration to getting my backside into writing something as well. So thank you for that sharing and inspiring and catch up with you again. Yeah, thanks<\/p>\n
00:41:46,480 everybody. Be lazy. Cheers. Bye now. Another great sponsor of the
\nshow, he comes in from of M-annual. M-annual is a, well, it’s a tool for
\ndocumenting process which, and best practices, it’s run out, so it’s company-form, but I can one of my
\n00:42:16,480 interviews, Alexis Kingbrook, essentially, and I kind of summarised why my view where you see documentation, a lot of my experience has
\nbeen, people will document something, a process, they’ll put it in a visual domain that gets loaded onto a shared website or something similar, and then a bunch of<\/p>\n
00:42:33,760 products are then, once that diagram has been shared with senior
\nmanagement, they’re happy, they have a process of business, but then the detailed procedures underneath it might be with documents, just
\npoorly kept and not linked easily, not updated, and what M-annual does,<\/p>\n
00:42:50,880 it allows you to put in a, it’s a tool for doing this kind of thing. You whack
\nit in, the service in there, get in there, put in your process, you flow,
\nwhen you build it down to its lower level of detail, eat into the point of checklists where people can check off of them,<\/p>\n
00:43:05,440 done it, so it creates that guided checklists, easy to create, easy to
\nmaintain, and all no one place, and no one’s kind of rooting around to find the share point, and then when you change to new share point
\nservices, and well, that’s not, it’s all there, so if you pop along to<\/p>\n
00:43:24,080 NigelPrusus.com\/M-annual, it’s been more detail there, a link there to
\nclick on to go on, yeah, I think they offer a trial, it’s something I think
\ncan easily reduce the amount of errors rework, etc, in our organization, so, um, get to that.<\/p>\n
00:43:59,280 Well, I hope you enjoyed the interview with Peter there for those who’ve
\nlistened to it before, I hope you picked out some new things for those
\nwho haven’t, maybe you want to jump back, listen to some of the, the back catalog, uh, other we’re going to cut the back catalog out to coming up<\/p>\n
00:44:12,160 with next couple of weeks, if you’re not going to, so look at yourself,
\ncheers there. So this is my final wrap-up every week you’re going to
\nhear this, you’re going to get bored of it, but you can always click next
\npodcast if so, um, if you have enjoyed it, if you listen to this podcast<\/p>\n
00:44:39,440 the end of this show and you think that was great, I’d love to be able to
\nhelp Nigel, there are loads of ways you can do it, the first and obvious
\nway is to share the podcast, send it out to people, um, if you, if you
\nknow colleagues or friends who’ve benefit from it, think they’d enjoy it,
\n00:45:00,160 just send them the link, grab one of the links, send it or send them to www.NigelCriser.com\/podcasts, that’s www.NigelCriser.com\/podcasts
\nand that’ll push them over to a, um, a link tree link and it’s got all of the different ways they can consume the podcast. Uh, if you are feeling generous and have a big<\/p>\n
00:45:25,280 bag of cash, you could grab a copy of one of my books, obviously, um,
\nthey’re available in all the usual places and print and, and, and digital. Again, jump on the website, uh, www.NigelCriser.com\/shop and that
\nwill give you a list of all the different ways that you can contribute, um, and grab copies of<\/p>\n
00:45:48,720 the book. Also got, um, links to all my guests, the books on there as
\nwell where I get a little bit of a kick back from them. Um, if you are of a
\nsporting mind, um, I have a number through doing some of my judo and
\nrunning, uh, antics, uh, I’ve managed to secure a few, um, uh, affiliate links and affiliates<\/p>\n
00:46:12,080 there as well. So in there, somewhere in the sponsors page, there’s
\nlinks to those as well. So clicking on to those and grabbing, uh, your, if
\nyou’re, if you’re, if you’re looking to, uh, get super fit, then that would be
\nfabulous as well. And I get a little kick back from those. Uh, I have a Patreon<\/p>\n
00:46:30,320 account. It’s patreon.com\/sundaylunchPM. Uh, so again, you can ping
\nsomething in there by me a coffee or whatever. And finally, obviously the most important is coming back, coming back, listen again, um, because, uh, the more of you than come back, uh, the more, uh, visibility I get, because<\/p>\n
00:46:51,840 there’s more times that you’re downloaded and all the SEO works and
\nthings like that. So yeah, that’s it. So, uh, if you can help me out, I
\nwould be much appreciated. If you can, don’t worry about it. Thank you very much. Chisna, bye.<\/p>\n
00:47:06,160 [Music] My latest, uh, the latest, uh, affiliate that I’ve got on the show
\nnow is Riverside. Um, I use Riverside to do my interviews, Riverside ever. Um, it kind of offers you a whole, if you like, 00:47:37,120 my pro studio management producer too, and, and, and goes beyond
\nthat, has a really good free layup. And I, um, I mean, usually for a while
\nnow, I find it really good when I’ve had issues, even though I’m not on
\none of the high paid levels, the support was being quick, responsive and, and, and, uh,<\/p>\n
00:47:56,000 high quality, and people keen to help me, uh, the organisation is really
\ngood. The product seems really intuitive, um, and, uh, quality is really
\ngood as well, and it’s going to, the clever way doing it is when you’re, you’re recording through your browsers, so you’re not got loads of desktop resources being<\/p>\n
00:48:13,200 used to compare to some other products that I’ve used. And what they
\nalso do is they do, um, this streamer, a lower quality version of it, up
\nonto, uh, as you’re doing the interview, so you’re not burning bandwidth
\nwhile you’re doing the interview and potentially, uh, impacting on the quality of<\/p>\n
00:48:29,040 the conversation. Uh, and then, at the end, the upload, uh, the, the, the
\nhigher quality from your browser, um, meaning it, it’s just a really good
\nway to do it. So, um, if you are, um, thinking of doing a podcast, and, um, some of your students do, I guess, I would recommend using this tool, and finally,<\/p>\n
00:48:46,400 really, the best, best of the tools I’ve tried using, um, to net, and, you can get that nodulecrison.com\/mode. You can get a little bit of the
\naudio, and you can get a little bit of the audio, and then, um, you can
\nget the audio. So, um, we’ll see you guys next time with a little bit of audio, and then, um,<\/p>\n
00:49:08,800 we’ll see you guys next time with more videos, and then, um, I’ll see you guys next time with more videos,<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
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