n<\/p>\n
1ab61661f001b669a5b7c3b45b93ac79.m4a<\/p>\n
00:00:00,000 And that can, you know, at best, it can help reinforce certain
\nassumptions about who we are. And at worst, it could help, you know,
\nor, you know, give us an excuse to not change. So I think it’s great to take some of these things and use them to help us understand and make sense,<\/p>\n
00:00:18,000 but also understand that there are limitations. I think there’s another aspect to some of these different instruments, and that aspect is
\ncorrelation is a bit like, you know, when we draw relationship between
\nthings, and you can take different qualities and correlate. So if, you
\nknow, if I’m, if I tend to be quiet in big groups, I am introverted.<\/p>\n
00:00:42,000 And these correlations again, they are helpful because we can understand various contexts and how we might respond. But equally, we can draw conclusions that are not necessarily, you know, we
\nspeculate, and they’re not necessarily, you know, definitive. And then the third one, I think, for me, is cause and effect.<\/p>\n
00:01:11,000 Hi, and welcome to the Sunday Launch Project Management Podcast
\nfor Sunday the 4th of February, 2024. This is Nigel Creese, your host. And today we’ve got Samarine McGregor, the leader of Weekly, part
\none of that conversation. Another great sponsor of the show, he comes
\nin form of M-Manual. M-Manual is a, well, it’s a tool for documenting
\nprocess, which, and best practices, it’s run it, so it’s a company formed by Guy, one of my interviews, Alexis Kinkbrough.<\/p>\n
00:01:55,000 Essentially, and I kind of summarised why, my view, where you see
\ndocumentation, a lot of my experience has been, people will document
\nsomething, a process, they’ll put it in a, a visual dome, they’ll get slowly
\ndone to a shared alongside or something similar. And then a bunch of products, so then once that diagram has been shared with senior management, they’re happy they have a process of this, but then the
\ndetailed procedures underneath it might be, with documents, just poorly kept and not linked easily, not updated, and what M-Manual does, it
\nallows you to put in a, it’s a tool for doing this kind of thing. You whack it
\nin, the service in, they’re getting, they’re putting your process in flow,
\nand you build it down to its lower level of detail, even to the point of checklists where people can check off them, done it.
\n00:02:42,000 So it creates that, guided checklists, easy to create, easy to maintain,
\nand all in one place, and no one’s kind of rooting around to find the
\nshare point, and when you change to new share point, service isn’t, well that’s not, it’s all there. So if you pop along to
\nNigelPrusor.com\/M-Manual, it’s been more detailed there, a link there
\nto click on to, I think they offer a trial, it’s not so, it’s, it’s something I
\nthink can easily, reducing the amount of errors, rework, etc, in our organization, so, let’s take a look.<\/p>\n
00:03:24,000 [Music] Today I am delighted to welcome Sam Rien McGregor to the
\nshow. She is an executive coach who works globally with senior leaders
\nand teams across the industry sectors. She’s described by clients as
\nhaving a unique ability to create the conditions leaders need to stretch
\nbeyond their perceived capabilities, make meaningful contributions, and preserve good health.<\/p>\n
00:03:56,000 That’s a difficult one at the best of times, we’ll get into that, I’m sure. Her interventions lie in a unique cross-section between business performance, behavioral change, and embodied consciousness. She is
\nhalf Venezuelan, and, oh, is it gone? My screen’s doing some crazy for me now, so I can’t see the last bit of that.<\/p>\n
00:04:20,000 We’ll get into that anyway. Half Venezuelan, half Indian, bilingual in
\nEnglish and Spanish, there we go. In recent years, her family has been
\ntraversing a journey involving pediatric cancer, her nine-year-old son’s
\nallowed a traumatic treatment of brain injury in this life experience, along with unfolding societal ramifications around COVID, and the
\nvolatile social, political, economic backdrop has deepened her personal mission towards awakening leaders into forms of prevention and
\nhealing, and the healing effects from inevitable adversities of life.<\/p>\n
00:04:57,000 Sam Rien, welcome to the show, and as I said, I’d butch you that intro.
\nYou do it fabulously, and thank you for sharing it, I’m afraid to be here
\ntoday. It’s great to have you all. Tell us a little bit more background, a little bit, filling a little bit. There’s a lot of things in there.<\/p>\n
00:05:15,000 Where are you? Where are you now? Where have you lived? We’re
\nfamily and all those sorts of things. What can you do now? I’ll start with
\nthis orientingly. Obviously, I live in the UK now, and I am married to a British man,
\n00:05:31,000 and we have two lovely kids, amazing kids who, as you’ve just
\nintroduced, have been through an extraordinary start in their life. But I was born in Venezuela, my father’s from India, and I have lived and worked very internationally. I’ve studied, lived and worked very internationally all throughout my life.<\/p>\n
00:05:56,000 And there is a relevance to that because I do see that as one of the
\nopportunities in really, really positive aspects of me and my upbringing. But I also have experienced adversities that stem from not having a very clear identity. So that’s my background and our national background.<\/p>\n
00:06:18,000 I’ve lived and worked in the UK really most of my adult life. And as you’ve mentioned, I do quite a lot of extremely, what I find very
\npassionate about it, but fascinating work across industries with lots of
\ndifferent businesses. And you have a real interest in understanding how businesses work, the flow through businesses, what drive and undermines performance within business. But equally, I have a real affinity for what drives people.<\/p>\n
00:06:56,000 And I’m starting with myself, using myself as an instrument. I’m really curious about how behavioral change happens. I have studied, I’ve experimented with, and I’ve researched and trained in a number of,
\nwe’ll probably talk about a few of them today, but a number of different facets to that. From psychology to neuroscience and more recently, naturopathy and embodied, systematic work.<\/p>\n
00:07:30,000 And as a result of the unfolding backdrop, as you mentioned as well, I
\nam seeing that the passion that I hold psychologically and behaviorally
\nis now integrating into the body. And I’ve learnt that throughout the last,
\nI would say, 100 years or so, we’ve relied or we’ve become, rely as a
\nspecies on what we do or we think. And we analyze things and we rely on a brilliant level of cognition that we have as humans.
\n00:08:07,000 But I’ve also started to have been to what our body tells us and there is deep stored insight that we often don’t access because of a bias in
\nthinking. And I know I’m generalizing and I’m simplifying that, but there
\nis quite a lot of new understanding in how that works. And particularly
\ngiven the backdrop and stress and trauma that we live through and just take a look at the headlines any day at the moment, whether it’s
\ninternet, whether it’s the economy and state of the economy in the UK or globally understanding how to navigate some of this is becoming more and more important.<\/p>\n
00:08:59,000 Yeah, that’s, there’s a whole raft of things I’m going to get into on that
\nfrom here in that. And obviously one of the one of the, and as soon as
\nyou start talking about kind of behavioral stuff and sort of. It opens up a
\nlot of questions weeks. It was something that as a kid many years ago, doing my, my, a, B-Tech National Diploma and Business and Finance did. There was one section which was on motivation in organizations and a lot of things about Maslow and Hertzberg’s.<\/p>\n
00:09:35,000 And hygiene factors and as I was high on, I give needs and that from
\nday one of reading that it was, I was fascinated by why people do stuff
\nand how to get them to do it kind of thing. And a lot of that. And since
\nthen I’ve, a reading that I’ve done and different things are picked up what have made me, it may be even more complete. There’s so many different models out there isn’t around behaviors and how people behave, whether it be.<\/p>\n
00:10:07,000 Surrounded by idiots, whether it be the disc profiles, whether it be, oh,
\nwhat’s the ones where they have the plant and the other, the bell bin, which is around for some time or, Ruth who had on my podcast a few years ago talking about strength based sort of building teams and things like that. How do you, I’m sure that you’re the,<\/p>\n
00:10:34,000 it’s been in to all of it. How do you square these all like to me
\nsometimes I said they’re going, they’re very complimentary, but it’s too
\nmany of them to kind of use on once if you don’t have it. How is that how you use and how do you use it in your executive coaching. Yeah,
\nwhat a great question, I do. And it’s, it’s, it’s interesting because got just three different parts to the answer.
\n00:10:59,000 I’ll give you and hopefully this is useful for, especially for people who are wanting to understand themselves better wanting to understand
\ntheir interactions better and you know what are those blind spots, what
\nare those things that perfectly well meaning people get wrong and why
\nthey get them wrong. Or interact, you know, why can’t you do this, why
\ndon’t we exist, why certain dynamics get set in that don’t help us get closer to objectives. Look, profiling instruments, psychometric instruments, I still use them, I still use them very much.<\/p>\n
00:11:35,000 I’m quite selective about how I use them because the point you make
\naround that there being too many is is absolutely valid. But there is,
\nthere is a ripness in those options being available now that the sort of,
\nthe sort of important part to understand here is that they all come from
\ndifferent perspectives and schools of thoughts. I think, you know, one of
\nthe things I highlight in, in, in, and what we’ll talk a little bit about the
\nbook that I recently published, but is that there is a difference between what Carl Jung would have, would have suggested that we are born with traits.<\/p>\n
00:12:13,000 Yeah, and some of these traits are personality traits that are based on
\npreferences and, you know, how we prefer to do things. We are actually fundamentally based on needs. But these innate qualities of us or characteristics tend to, to lean on this tool of what’s called
\ndispositionism. So we’re disposed, we, we are born this way. Whereas
\nthere is another school which is not necessarily in conflict where the or at odds with, but it’s just a different way of looking at it.<\/p>\n
00:12:43,000 And, and actually in my experience is a, is a complement to is, is situation is and that is what the environment around us presents us
\nwith. And those factors and conditions then enable us or disable us or
\nundermine us or make things harder or easier. And we need to respond
\nto them. Now, if I’m just taking that one lens, if you take a lot of these profiling instruments, they will sit in one.
\n00:13:12,000 In one of those two classifications, yeah. And as humans, I guess we like the city or we, we strive for clarity of meaning. And these
\nclassifications are helpful because they help us understand and they help us box something in and make us help us make sense of it. But
\nthere is a limitation to classification. And actually if you take some of the
\nother, some of some specific, you know, Myers breaks type indicator is probably the most commonly used individual metric.<\/p>\n
00:13:41,000 You talk about that, but it’s probably the most statistically tested has
\nbeen used for the longest. And, you know, there’s a limitation because it does tend to put you in a particular box, even though there’s a
\nspectrum. And it puts you in a particular box. And that, that can, you
\nknow, at best it can help reinforce certain assumptions about who we are.<\/p>\n
00:14:05,000 And at worst it could help, you know, or, you know, give us an excuse
\nto not change. So I think it’s great to take some of these things and use them to help us understand and make sense, but also understand that
\nthere are limitations. I think there’s another aspect to some of these
\ndifferent instruments. And that aspect is correlation is a bit like, you know, when we draw relationship between things.<\/p>\n
00:14:32,000 You can take different qualities and correlate. So if, you know, if, if I’m, if
\nI tend to be quiet in big groups, I am introverted. And these correlations again, there are helpful because we can understand various contexts and how we might respond. But equally we can draw conclusions that
\nare not necessarily, you know, we speculate and they’re not necessarily, you know, definitive.<\/p>\n
00:14:57,000 And then the third one, I think for me is cause and effect. So, you know, what, what is actually causing our behaviors and what’s consistent
\nabout that? What’s, what are some of the inconsistencies that we need
\nto question and check. And I think that there are some really, really helpful instruments. And again, I use them selectively. But those instruments are the ones that use all three of those.
\n00:15:19,000 And they don’t just classify, they don’t just correlate, they don’t, well, I
\nmean, they will give you some cause and effect, but there are those are
\nbased on first two. And then the final point I just want to make on this is,
\nyou know, for me, I think as my coaching profession has evolved, I’ve
\nbecome far more interested in creating a space for people to live with
\nthe messy. To live in the great, to embrace some of the things that are
\nnot as clear cut as a classification or a specific correlation between, you know, characteristics.<\/p>\n
00:15:59,000 And so I would say I would encourage people to be curious about them,
\nbut, but be aware of some of their limitations. What’s fabulous, it’s
\ninteresting that correlation causation cause and effect and all that sort
\nof thing. It’s, it’s that thing which every 90% of news stories that I do hear on the telly. I sit there going and look at it and go in.<\/p>\n
00:16:26,000 There are causalities being in food from data. The medical industry
\nkeeps a lot of people alive, but a lot of the medical industry sort of
\nstatistics there is, you do get a lot of things that are. What’s the word?
\nThey take the data and decide, well, actually, this is likely more than likely. Now, sometimes I see what you need to do, because the silly
\ndata you’ve got is more likely it’s going to help which can be caused by this and therefore.<\/p>\n
00:16:58,000 By taking that data, doing that right would do this will will take you to the
\nnext step if it’s not there. That isn’t it. But it’s sometimes you’re not. It isn’t always 100%. That direction. And I said, yeah.<\/p>\n
00:17:18,000 Yeah, sorry, sorry, I interrupted. I’m not excited. I’ve never done that, but
\nyou don’t love how does you say you’re. You say what you’re going to
\nsay? No, no, I just wanted to build on a point there because it’s very dangerous when we draw or speculate and then draw causalities.<\/p>\n
00:17:36,000 Yeah. And then particularly when you’re saying it’s in the media, it can
\nand I know we’re definitely going down a rabbit hole here, but it can
\ndefinitely take us down. And it’s very influential. And so the same thing
\nwould apply to personality tests with us as humans as individuals and
\nalso in our interactions with others. Because a lot of these instruments
\nare there to help us see more clearly and understand. But if it’s based
\non speculative causes, we’re creating an illusion that might not even be true.
\n00:18:12,000 Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s that that’s the point is there you’ll you
\nwill see that drinking a glass of wine is really good for you. Tomorrow,
\ndrinking a glass of wine is the devil’s Jason you’re going to this guy to whizzing because there’s been a study and because that study has
\nlooked at. It’s funny actually I wrote a little little comment on someone
\nto put something about Iki guy and I’ve actually got a piece of paper on the Iki guy concepts, which I really liked.<\/p>\n
00:18:44,000 I was a bit of a truce in battles a few years ago and that was a concept
\nthat I was reading about. I’ve been in treatment kind of read the book
\nand kind of got the idea I like the idea of it and read about the guys in
\nknocking out where I think it is is where the lot of it’s coming from. And
\nthen I saw a document about not talking about documentary about blue
\nzones. The blue zones were the they seem to be people who last lot of
\ntime and and what one of the things that they noticed as well is that there was a predigitly era in these areas to be the situation where someone will.<\/p>\n
00:19:26,000 A grandparent or parent would pass but in order to continue collecting the pension because if it wasn’t someone local who knew them and it
\nwas a state they would collect that pension and continue to collect that
\npension so when you look at that the records of organizations of how
\nlong someone’s living for is based on how long they’re collecting their
\npension. And not necessarily how long they were alive and so some of
\nthese some of that data there was again there’s the data we know what
\nit is actually when you dig down into the real data underneath and start
\ncritically analyzing it and I’m not sure that it was a conclusive on that
\nbecause again it was pre pre digit also having the data to go back to
\nand things like that but it could be that some of these people who lived for nearly 100 years with three people or at least two people who
\nmanaged to live that long. So that’s that’s the just that whole thing and
\nthen you’re right it’s like that that reinforcement that you get from your horoscope when you read your horoscope and sometimes some of
\nthese personality things will be those reinforcements your confirmation
\nbias and all that sort of thing that you’re looking at it and going yeah
\nyeah it says I’m like I’m as bad for it for anyone that I’ll see that.
\n00:20:46,000 And the dis profiles and I’ll see myself in that certain profile but I also
\nsee that. And you’ve got to use it as a tool of how you might change your behavior or how to understand someone else’s behavior rather
\nthan to decide as you say that’s me so living it. So I can’t change or can’t adapt because you can change you can adapt and just that’s a
\nchoice it’s just harder to in some cases if your natural tendencies to do
\none thing or another that doesn’t mean you’re stuck with that so it’s about understand it I see these things is about understanding your default understanding your preferred not your absolute.<\/p>\n
00:21:34,000 Yeah I love that and yes absolutely and being really open to
\nunderstanding further and not getting definitive and stuck on on where
\nwe might be absolutely agree. So when you’re working with executives and coaching and the thing how do you because your dealing with
\nreally successful people I guess at that level they’ve got to a level and
\nthey’ve done pretty good as they are and maybe there are things they can change how do you have that conversation how do you how do you
\nget them to because it’s not coaching it’s not about you telling isn’t it’s about getting them to look at themselves differently. How do you do that? Yeah it’s really.<\/p>\n
00:22:24,000 You don’t want to share. Of course I’ve got a secret sauce that’s for
\nsure but it’s so it’s a really important part of the work when it comes to
\npersonal development and when it comes to recognizing something that
\nmight need to change because actually and first of all defining success is important yeah because success when they’re in their 20s and 30s
\nand are you know successfully or effectively climbing in line when I say climbing because there is definitely an upwards movement
\nmetaphorically in line with their expectations their aspirations what society demands or encourage us to to to consider.
\n00:23:16,000 As success. I think that’s really important to take into account first of all because they these metrics become the criteria by which we as professionals judge whether we are good whether we are effective
\nwhether we are proficient so so that’s I think a really important starting point and and my sense is that with most of the people I work I’ve
\nworked with over the years and there have been maybe three different
\npossibilities more but three I’m just trying to make it to sort of make it
\nyou know somewhat concise one is the the sort that is really aware that
\nwhatever the reason is not going to really want to be fast enough yeah it’s usually a matter of I want to accelerate the pace or I want to<\/p>\n
00:24:14,000 go much further yeah so it’s nothing about that the second is is an
\nindividual or certain of individuals that they are actually pretty much unaware but they are being given the feedback either by the
\norganization or by a specific context of you know colleagues or a boss that there isn’t something that’s not working and that they need to
\nchange and and if they go that there are consequences to that and then
\nthere’s a third which are probably and this is probably a more spiritual
\ncategory which are are people who who genuinely just have this thirst for learning and changing and developing and evolving and you know and and I would say those are roughly you know there’s more categories but I would say that those are roughly the ones and it’s coming back to your point around you know how how do you get
\nsomeone to accept that there is a need for them to to change anything in order to enhance if that you know if they’ve been successful and
\nactually I would say that particularly of late of the last you know I would
\nsay seven to to to ten years I I’ve become fairly philosophical about that because you know reflecting on my own experience of of life of ambition I’m I’m highly
\n00:25:34,000 ambitious person and I mean to the point where it has affected my
\nhealth it’s affected my relationships and I can definitely see these sorts
\nof traits and in in people we whether it’s ambition or whether it’s you
\nknow a relentless need to prove ourselves there’s lots of versions these are deeply rooted characteristics that come from our life story and
\nactually some of that even begins before we were born they come from
\nprevious generations and they’re carried through and and I’m learning
\nthrough epigenetics this is definitely something that’s that’s been proven more and more some of the the gene expression actually can transmit
\nand transcend so the work that I do with people is to help them spend
\ntime spend time create the space to know themselves a bit better to to
\nreally come to terms with some of those greater points that typically
\nwhen we’re busy and we’re just going through life with the rhythm that pulls us we don’t have time or the space or the awareness to notice<\/p>\n
00:26:56,000 yeah it’s the I suppose it’s one of those things where you can lead a
\nhorse to water with some of the some people and at a point in time so much you’ve got to be ready to take on board and to make a change and actually I suppose it’s conversations and over time and and
\neventually some either will or want to take on board those things I know
\nI’ve got situations where I’ve got people working for me who are doing
\nthemselves any favors in certain behaviors that they that they’ve had
\nand I’ve talked to them try to talk to them about it and I can tell with
\nsome people that they don’t see that there’s a problem everyone else is the problem not then and and whilst they do with as much love as
\npossible until they’re willing to recognize that the the the influence of
\nthat behavior on their on people’s perception of them and upon their successes<\/p>\n
00:28:06,000 until they realize that they can change that and they will get a result and
\nthey will in change it into the situation where I’ve got people who from
\nthey literally will cut their nose off spite the face because it’s they want
\nto be right rather than move forward and in my industry project delivery
\nmanaging stateholders negotiating I find myself apologizing for things
\nthat are my fault a lot. I apologize for the for someone who said I could argue it’s not my fault is something that they’ve done.
\n00:28:45,000 Now if it’s not commercial, it’s not contractual, it’s all that sort of thing, I
\ndon’t care but I’ve got to that point I don’t mind I’ve freedom forward
\nthen have a big fight about something that I’m not that fussed about.
\nYeah I kind of I’ll take the little bit and I think it’s but some people can’t do that and won’t do that and I understand why they want because
\nwhen it’s right it’s right and there are some people out there who take advantage of that they’re just irritating and at a<\/p>\n
00:29:19,000 principle they just wind people up and we shouldn’t have to stand for
\nthat this time kind of choosing a battle sometimes isn’t it? I just find that
\nwillingness to learn that constant learning is so powerful for us all because when we realize we’re always wrong or realize that we could always be wrong we always make sure that what we’re doing is the
\nright thing. Yeah and just this is not a weakness it’s a strength because
\nif you do do that reflection you realize actually am I am I doing the best in the in in in poster syndrome<\/p>\n
00:30:00,000 that sits out there in a lot of scenarios and you see a lot talk about it at the moment and that is kind of that’s the fundamental there it’s
\nquestioning yourself but actually is that something actually it’s it’s
\nhealthy skepticism rather than as long as it’s healthy skepticism about
\nyour own decisions rather than debilitating stop it saying I can’t do
\nanything then that’s right that’s what we need isn’t everyone need that
\nbecause you got it’s because we’re not always right. Some people I’m sure are listening to say am I am but there you go.<\/p>\n
00:30:37,000 I don’t know I don’t know I agree with you I think that need for questioning and the ability to step back and and you know see more
\nthan one side see more than our own side. Is is definitely a you know in
\nhigh demand let’s put it that way particularly in workplaces in project environments I’m very familiar with the negotiation that goes on in
\nproject environments you know there’s always the need to to you know
\nto deliver within within finite resources and budget and time so that there will always be a need for negotiation now I would I would say
\ncertainly in my own experience of working in project environments in
\nany workplace environment it would probably be consistent is that there is a layer a very.
\n00:31:35,000 Clear layer it is quite a thick layer I would say at which we interact with one another and that layer is very task focused and we each are
\nactually we get hired to do a job most of us I would say yeah. So in that
\njob or in that you know performing tasks that we want to do well and I
\nwould also say that most of us want to collaborate to do well at at at you know at that level of that sort of superficial level what in my
\nexperience and certainly what I’m learning more more is that some of the deeper layers which are infused with the muscle memory of the
\nfabric of the organization or the industry that you might be working with
\ninfused with politics in use with what we each bring as individuals a big
\nheavy bag filled with rocks made up life experience and some of those are strong<\/p>\n
00:32:43,000 deeply stuck emotions that may have actually been true in a previous
\ntime as children or throughout our life has an impact on how we then
\ninteract at that level at that task level and I think some of the things that
\nyou were saying there I mean I recognize so many of them in fact I was
\ntalking to somebody just yesterday in in in an organization that I’m working with I’m doing management development program on part of
\nthe team and we were we were specifically talking about the fact that
\nshe you know she she sees that the report he’s got two reports only she sees them as extremely talented you know she doesn’t understand why she’s going to a management program because actually the two people
\nthat report to her are probably more experienced and she is it’s really really sees them as as you know very very high potential people and
\nand then I said you know so so what other people do you deal with it
\nshe said well I’ve got a lot of stakeholders and and so and how would you describe the process of interacting with them as you
\n00:33:53,000 go as well I’ve got to make sure that they get things done and you know
\nthere are few things that actually cause the biggest issues and they’re
\nonly a few but they cause a lot of stress and they cause a lot of delay and they cause a lot of obstacles and so we started to have this
\npublication about what gets in the way and actually when it came down to it it’s a lack of real connection between her and some of these stakeholders she doesn’t really know what you know what where they stand on certain things but actually she doesn’t know them you know
\nshe they’re just focusing on the task and the negotiation between the
\ntasks and and she said well actually what I’m learning is I I need to spend a bit more time just just understanding them as humans before we were forced we forced our own needs on the other in those tasks
\nand I would say that that Nigel is really what underpins a lot of these
\nunnecessary energy energy forces that pull us apart rather than pull us together<\/p>\n
00:34:54,000 you know like oh yeah I can do that it’s it’s a it is that situation where
\nyou where I’ve and a heart back to a project from some time ago where
\nI was running the project and I come into it and they’ve been having
\ntrouble with this project for quite a few years actually trying to get done
\ndifferent ways of doing it and there was two different normalizations and
\nthat we’re essentially having a pitched battle. It just escalated over time
\nto the point where it if one said that that wall the sky was blue the other would say it was green it just got to that almost that level of<\/p>\n
00:35:38,000 because they weren’t able to listen to the others so much and we and
\nthey didn’t care about the others point of view they didn’t care about
\ntheir problems it was them being unreasonable it was all that kind of thing and we ended up having quite big we was quite a big team of
\npeople 30 people workshop we put together about right this is this thing
\nwe’re breaking it down into pieces this is how we’re going to do it right.
\n00:36:05,000 You from that organization you from that organization you from that
\norganization you’re looking at that bit and we kind of broke them into
\ngroups to go and solve the problem and solve the problem together so
\nthey both all had their own context about what happens so work it out explain how it’s going to happen what happens what the problems and
\nwhat it ended up doing still still some personality clashes in there but
\nwhat it did actually break down it so that the people within the one organization knew more about what people in the other organization would do<\/p>\n
00:36:39,000 and then doing this meant this to them and that’s why that was hard for them and then doing this when it was harder and they got that
\nconversation going and those those stakeholder conversations that at
\nthat not that senior management level this is an operational level in
\nsome ways by doing that these guys then started clicking and started working and started making allowances from each of those which is partly relationship building have taken them out of the normal environments they’re in but also that exposing them to each other’s roles<\/p>\n
00:37:15,000 and like six about understanding that person and and where one person saying when you do that and have passed four that means I’m not
\nhome till seven o’clock and I don’t see my kids that when people start to
\nsee those kind of impacts they start to think oh yeah hang on a minute I
\nreally need this to happen for ring them up and go I’m sorry we really
\nneed it I know you’re going to it’s going to cause you a problem rather than why aren’t you doing it and it changes that dynamic<\/p>\n
00:37:49,000 and is so critical for all of us I think the week we think about and I’m a
\nskill to use anyone sitting there going gladiating it’s why they do it right why they’re doing what I’m doing why they’re taking so long why are
\nthey doing that and then you have to sit back and you’re hang on let’s
\nthink why okay I understand what how can I help how am I causing the problem or am I helping and it’s hard to do because we’re all under pressure to deliver
\n00:38:25,000 the great sponsor of the show he comes in form of M and M and you’ll
\nis a well it’s a tool for documenting process which best practices it’s run it so it’s company formed by one of my interviews Alexis Kingbrook essentially and I kind of summarised why my view is you documentation a lot my experience has been people will document something a process they put it in a visual dome<\/p>\n
00:38:57,000 it gets loaded onto a shirt alongside or something similar and then a bunch of products so then once that diagram has been shared with senior management they’re happy they have a process of business but
\nthen the detailed procedures underneath it might be documents in just poorly kept and not linked easily and not updated and what M annual
\ndoes it allows you to put in a it’s a tool for doing this kind of thing<\/p>\n
00:39:23,000 you whack it in the service in there get in there put in your process you
\nflow when you build it down to its lower level of detail even to the point
\nof checklists where people check off they’ve done it so it creates that guided checklists easy to create easy to maintain and all the more
\nplace and no one’s kind of rooting around to find the share point and then when you change to new share point services<\/p>\n
00:39:47,000 well that’s not the it’s all there so if you pop along to
\nNigelPrusive.com\/M annual it’s been more detail there a link there to
\nclick on to go on yet I think they offer a trial it’s a it’s it’s something I think can easily reduce the amount of errors rework etc in our organization so yeah take a look<\/p>\n
00:40:15,000 what I hope you enjoyed part one of that conversation and come back next week have a listen to part two speak soon bye hope you enjoyed
\nthat but you’re thinking oh I wonder what the next bit’s going to be yeah it’s frustrating Nick<\/p>\n
00:40:50,000 you heard the beginning of the show where I said there’s a way around
\nthere so if you really itching and you want to hear the next bit of this show jump down to paint through and have a look find the one that’s
\ngot a little lock on it click on it and you’ll be able to get the second half
\nalong with the first half all together and you you won’t get this annoying bit or the annoying bit of the beginning that I just done as well
\n00:41:16,000 so yeah give it a go just do your price of a coffee cheers so this is my
\nfinal wrap up every week you’re gonna hear this you’re gonna get bored
\nof it but you can always click next podcast if so if you have enjoyed it if
\nyou listen to this podcast at the end of this show and you think that was great I’d love to be able to help my joke<\/p>\n
00:41:51,000 there are loads of ways you can do it the first and obvious way is to
\nshare the podcast send it out to people if you if you know colleagues or
\nfriends who’ve benefit from it think they’d enjoy it just send them the link grab one of the links send or send them to
\nwww.NigelCreaser.com\/podcasts<\/p>\n
00:42:14,000 and that’ll push them over to a link tree link and it’s got all of the different ways they can consume the podcast if you are feeling generous and have a big bag of cash you could grab a copy of one of
\nmy books obviously they’re available in all the usual places and print and digital again jump on the website www.NigelCreaser.com\/shop<\/p>\n
00:42:50,000 and that will give you a list of all the different ways that you can
\ncontribute and grab copies of the book also got links to all my guests
\nbooks on there as well where I get a little bit of a kick back from them if you are of a sporting mind I have a number through doing some of my judo and running antics I’ve managed to secure a few<\/p>\n
00:43:16,000 affiliate links and affiliates there as well so in there somewhere in the
\nsponsors page there’s links to those as well so clicking on to those and
\ngrabbing your if you’re with it if you’re looking to get super fit then that
\nwould be fabulous as well and I get a little kick back from those I have a Patreon account it’s patreon.com\/sundaylunchpm<\/p>\n
00:43:41,000 so again you can ping something in there by me a coffee or whatever
\nand finally obviously the most important is coming back listen again because the more of you than come back the more visibility I get because there’s more times that you’re downloading and all the SEO
\nworks and things like that so yeah that’s it so if you can help me out I would be much appreciated if you can don’t worry about it<\/p>\n
00:44:11,000 thank you very much tschisno bye [Music] my latest the latest affiliate that I’ve got on the show now is Riverside I use Riverside to do my interviews Riverside ever
\n00:44:33,000 it kind of offers you a whole if you like my pro studio management
\nproducer too and goes beyond that has a really good free layer and I
\nam I mean using it for a while now I find it really good when I’ve had
\nissues even though I’m not on one of the high paid levels the support has been quick responsive and and then the high quality and people keen to help me<\/p>\n
00:44:59,000 the organization is really good the product seems really intuitive and
\nquality is really good as well and it’s going to clever way doing it is
\nwhen you’re recording through your browsers so you’re not got loads of desktop resources being used to compare to some other products that have used and what they also do is they do a this streamer a lower quality version of it up onto as you’re doing the interview<\/p>\n
00:45:23,000 doing the interview so you’re not burning bandwidth while you’re doing
\nthe interview and potentially imparting quality of conversation and then
\nat the end the uploads the higher quality from your browser I mean it’s
\njust really good way to do it so if you are thinking of doing a podcast
\nand doing some podcast I would recommend using this tool for a fairly good best<\/p>\n
00:45:47,000 of the tools I’ve tried using today and you can get that
\nnodulecreaser.com\/riverside and that will redirect you to my kick back
\npage on their site and there I will get a look back from there so take a
\nlook thanks well it’s goodbye from me nodulecreaser and it’s goodbye from him the Sunday lunch pm goodbye<\/p>\n
00:46:15,000 [Music] [Music]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
n 1ab61661f001b669a5b7c3b45b93ac79.m4a 00:00:00,000 And that can, you know, at best, it can help reinforce certain assumptions about who we are. And at worst, it could help, you know, or, you know, give us an excuse to not change. So I think it’s great to take some of these things and use them to help us […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[187],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-965","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-transcripts"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/965","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=965"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/965\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":966,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/965\/revisions\/966"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=965"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=965"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=965"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}