n<\/p>\n
7e27e7713fe31779ada9ec7dea40c61c.m4a<\/p>\n
00:00:00,000 [Music] Hi and welcome to the Sunday Lunch Project Manager podcast for Sunday the 7th of August. And today we have Tammy Watchhorn, the Changed Ninja.<\/p>\n
00:00:23,920 [Music] So this week we are again sportive at Hamplow. Hamplow is an online tool that turns meetings into actions and has a number of different features.<\/p>\n
00:00:48,800 The video I’m going to talk about today is around the project and task
\nmanagement and the follow-up. Essentially you have a clear dashboard
\nthat shows you an overview of schedule tasks, alert tasks for late tasks and overview of teams progress.<\/p>\n
00:01:02,880 So as you jump into your outlook and be endeavoured by that morass
\nof email that we get, you can create your own daily plan in there or you can as a project manager you may be assigning tasks to people. And those people can look at those have their own daily plans adding in their own specific items they’ve<\/p>\n
00:01:20,320 got to do as well as the things allocated to them. The problem project
\nmanagement point of view you get a dedicated dashboard will list the
\ntasks and what people are working on in each project and there’s a load of collaboration capability in there.<\/p>\n
00:01:32,160 With a goal again no task left undone, more efficiency and motivation
\nand clear action plans. So if you want to see what this is all about jump
\nonto tinyurourout.com\/nigelcrisetamplow at all with Nigelcrisetamplow. Have fun!<\/p>\n
00:01:50,800 Well these weeks seem to be scooting along really quick, doesn’t seem
\nlike a four nights in the last time I recorded one of these. I’ve just
\nfinished this week for my first holiday, I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got,<\/p>\n
00:02:17,760 was it seven days, ten days, I can’t remember where, off now, which is great so scooting away, I’m getting along to watch some of the Commonwealth games on Monday going to watch the judo there
\ncheering on the, well all of the home nations teams mainly the England one,
\n00:02:36,960 that’s supposed to put it as a minute to be English but a bit high in 57 to
\nactually probably cheer them all on. So I’m really looking forward to that and looking forward to spend some time waiting for the family and chilling out for a few weeks for Chelikis as project managers is so<\/p>\n
00:02:51,520 important for us to disconnect so I’m locking laptops in, cupboards and
\nnot taking them with me and kind of being, being present for another
\nbetter word. But what’s happened over the last couple of weeks, it’s been just busy days at work trying to<\/p>\n
00:03:10,640 get myself sorted as ready for holidays, we all do, always find that last
\nday for holiday, you feel even more productive than you do the rest of
\nthe time. And yeah I just received recently a copy of Tammy’s book, Dr Tammy Watch, who you’ve got to let’s do it a minute, the changing<\/p>\n
00:03:31,760 injure handbook so I may take that along with me and that will be part
\nof my summer reading. And just a little note for your diary on that,
\nTammy’s book actually comes out on the 22nd of August so it’s the day
\nafter the second part of this show goes out so there’s a good chance<\/p>\n
00:03:51,200 you’ll miss it in there, I think she’s got a special offer of 99 pence on
\nthat day. And what she is asking is if people can just maybe focus on
\nsay 10 o’clock I think it is a bite around then and that’ll help with visibility and for it to be for people to see how well<\/p>\n
00:04:09,840 it’s doing. And to be honest at 99p that’s an absolute bargain, I’ve got a
\nphysical copy but the 99p digital one on Amazon I’m going to grab as
\nwell. There’ll be links in the show, no? So or just pop along to the shop
\nand you’ll have to grab it there but like as you put it in a calendar<\/p>\n
00:04:28,960 little warning to go and grab it on the 22nd. And yeah I’m kind of done a
\ncouple of great podcast conversations which I’m looking forward to in the back end of the year. Those should be great fun. Had some
\ninteresting technical challenges in that typically within recording I’ve been using Zoom<\/p>\n
00:04:52,320 which has been great, we’re easy, that’s simple. Zoom have now implemented even for the one to one it, conversations are 40 minute
\nlimit. As you know I’m kind of bootstrapped with this and kind of don’t
\nhave a lot of cash not going around to build fun podcasts. So I’ve been looking at alternatives
\n00:05:12,320 so I’m probably going to be trying a new product called Riverside FM so
\nwe’ll see what that’s like after the summer holidays because now I’m
\nnot recording any more podcasts until September time which is just the
\nway it is I suppose, good time to have a bit of a break. So that’s it, I’m going<\/p>\n
00:05:31,920 to be short sweet today. Some people say oh really yeah and let you
\nget listening to the change ninja Dr Tammy Watchhorn. Today I’d like to welcome Dr Tammy Watchhorn, the change ninja to the podcast. Tammy has a background in project and program management, organizational change and innovation<\/p>\n
00:05:58,080 alongside many years of mentoring, designing and facilitating
\nworkshops events and training using face to face and virtual solutions,
\nbasically helping individuals and teams be their best. She’s a change
\nagent, educator, facilitator, innovator, coach and currently is director of<\/p>\n
00:06:16,400 and I don’t know how to say spoke and ask, and hopefully not chat. And chat, director of Pentechle Scotland and an associate sparking
\nperformance. So that’s we’ll find out what all those are in a bit. So Tammy welcome to the show.<\/p>\n
00:06:31,840 Thank you for having me great to be here. So do you want to just give
\npeople a little bit of background where you’re from what you’re doing? Yeah so my background is as you say lots of project management and
\nbig organizational change. I worked in the National Health Service for a long time.<\/p>\n
00:06:49,920 And kind of went through the ranks that most people do. First you do the project management, getting to program management, sort of a more strategic and some of the bigger change programs did all the
\ncertification and then I sit in a room for five days to pass and get the certificate<\/p>\n
00:07:07,280 and lastly moved into innovation. And my big kind of insight I think in
\nthat journey or towards the end I guess the last few years was that all of
\nthe change required you to work in different ways with people because
\nit was all about people. It wasn’t about process, it wasn’t about getting<\/p>\n
00:07:27,680 the certificate, it wasn’t about having a risk register, it was about how you navigate system which is built around processes that you can’t change but mostly guarded by people. And so I particularly for
\ninnovation focused all of my efforts and energy on how can we innovate 00:07:44,480 how we work and change how we work together and collaborate to do
\ngood stuff rather than focusing on gadgets and shiny things that might
\nlook good but they’re just gadgets and shiny things. Yeah that sounds fair. And where are you in the UK obviously from?<\/p>\n
00:08:00,480 I know that but whereabouts in the UK are you? I am in Scotland
\nrecently moved out to the country so I moved from being a city girl into the sticks and just starting to explore what that’s like.<\/p>\n
00:08:13,680 Right I see that makes a very big different exploring thing from our
\nconversation area. Big change is a big change for an engine to make.
\nYeah that’s massive change massive. Well it’s great to have you on and obviously the one thing<\/p>\n
00:08:26,240 that we are talking about is your new book that I believe you said is out 00:08:36,240 in August. That’s just a third. That’s it. Change Ninja Handbook. 00:08:46,800
\nYeah. And we’ve got another bunch of items that we’re in what you’re doing at the moment so what’s a change Ninja?<\/p>\n
So I have all of these stories of trying to lead and deliver change and
\ntake people with me and get other teams leading change and as I say it
\nwas always really challenging and the what I found was if you tried to
\ndo it down tried to make change happen using the traditional process<\/p>\n
00:09:06,480 and groups you just got stuck the health services just so against risk it’s
\nhigh on bureaucracy it’s high on governance it’s very hierarchical so
\nnothing happened and I kind of realized that to get anything done you
\nhad to stay a little bit under the radar focus on people and individuals working<\/p>\n
00:09:25,360 you know working out who you need to get on board and and shift in
\nthat and I started to get some traction and started to really shift things. I introduced things like cube which is cube with a cube which was a virtual web working way way before covid and lockdown and it completely changed<\/p>\n
00:09:45,040 how I worked. Nothing you’ve had Eddie O’Benn go ahead. Yeah. Yeah.
\nYeah. Yeah. So I started working with Eddie and it was just completely transformed it really innovated how we worked we started being more productive we were more efficient we had more fun we were doing proper collaboration
\n00:10:00,240 we were getting more time back to do more value added stuff I actually
\ngot rid of email in the health service which nobody believes me but I managed to get rid of my inbox pretty much because we just started
\nworking in it if it might but we had to keep it couldn’t go up at a senior level it couldn’t<\/p>\n
00:10:16,080 be a big roll out thing so it was done where it was needed and people got interested and kind of creating that community of other change
\nninjas delivering the results but not you know not boasting about how
\nwe’ve done it or bragging about the ways of doing it and just just getting it in<\/p>\n
00:10:33,200 in that ninja way you know and other people will often take credit for it which was fine you know find somebody who will own this at a senior
\nlevel and talk about it you can get much more done so it was I had all of
\nthese stories they’re quite funny because we we’re going to battle every day<\/p>\n
00:10:49,680 quite often in organisations trying to get things done and trying to understand why those battles were and how to navigate around them
\nand and I wanted to do something funny with them I wanted to get them out there but make them kind of teachable moments and learning moments for people in a fun way<\/p>\n
00:11:08,160 which is where the change in ninja handbook kind of came up as a very
\ninteractive gamified adventure book it’s very different to your typical
\nacademic home of how to make things happen I like that I like the idea
\nof that it’s something that it’s kind of a scratch the surface of well the the<\/p>\n
00:11:26,800 title of this podcast and my book which around that kind of trying to do
\nsomething around educating through parody through stories and things
\nlike that on the project management tools and techniques rather than as you say there are some actually I think if you look at the academic<\/p>\n
00:11:46,800 tomes that are out there there’s some amazing work that’s already be
\ndone it’s already there and if that’s what you need is the PMI’s the
\nAPMs the all those organizations invest a lot of time a lot of money
\ngetting those things academically right and that’s brilliant and they should work but the
\n00:12:08,720 problem is is as you kind of alluded to there once you put some squishy
\nhumans in and they’re different drivers different backgrounds different experience different cultures that’s when things you have to adapt
\nthings to be able to get stuff done and whether it’s with your team or your stakeholders<\/p>\n
00:12:32,080 and it’s yeah you can see it can be frustrating can’t it where you can you think why aren’t those people doing what I need them to do it’s obvious to me but being able to understand what they’re saying what
\ntheir point of view and what’s there nothing you mentioned risk earlier that risk a<\/p>\n
00:12:58,880 and having to convince the life service people are taking it to run
\nconvincing them that an understanding that actually me doing this to them make all them to be working the weekend and away from their family therefore why should they take<\/p>\n
00:13:14,480 that risk unless I’ve got a way of fixing if it goes wrong yeah and I think I
\nthink that’s really important because I think quite often the risk aversion
\nisn’t real risk aversion it’s just something that that person they’ve got a reason for not wanting to do a particular thing and so the the<\/p>\n
00:13:32,800 old idea of the change ninja is trying to understand why and finding
\nways to shift them so that they can see the value of what it is you’re
\ntrying to do and so really working on individual by individual basis which
\nsounds like you know it’s quite time consuming but if you can get those people on board<\/p>\n
00:13:51,680 really early you can you can make up but you know you make a
\nprogress so quickly you’ll get things out there and they’ll champion it so
\nreally investing in understanding individuals and their perspectives and approaching things from there you know putting yourselves in this<\/p>\n
00:14:07,840 tacky saying they put yourselves in their shoes but really trying to
\nunderstand what it is that would shift their thinking so that it’s a positive
\nfor them yeah well that putting yourself in their shoes is a as you say it’s kind of a little bit of a clich but it’s it’s an illustration of<\/p>\n
00:14:24,080 of making you think about actually if I think about that point then the old
\nterm walker mile in someone else’s shoes isn’t it that same thing of and to be for you criticize something or understand why they are aren’t doing something and I’ve done it myself where you sit there banging your head
\n00:14:38,160 against wall thinking about that why is this person so against me and
\nmy project and it’s not about me and my project but I love to see others
\nwhere I’ve got a podcast it’s all about me isn’t it so but do you know I
\nmean it’s it’s not about you it’s not about your project it’s about them and it’s<\/p>\n
00:14:57,600 about their their commitments and it’s about their team even or it might
\nbe their customers or in like really it’s just it might be their patients that
\nthey that’s who they are really worried about and getting without getting
\nputting yourself in their place you’re never going to get it are you<\/p>\n
00:15:15,760 and no I suppose asking is part of this as well yeah they might know
\nthings that you don’t so again you know they might be saying no for a very good reason so there’s a lot of learning to be had in those
\nengagements as well brilliant so tell us a bit about what’s the structure of the book what’s<\/p>\n
00:15:33,600 the kind of a bit of I think you’ve given us a little bit of an outline there kind of how do you pull this together tell us more so that was the
\nchallenge so assistant on all these stories so two challenges one how
\ndo you how do you present things in a different way that’s going to be<\/p>\n
00:15:48,400 interesting and people are going to get something from and two I said I
\nmentioned to Eddie that I’d always wanted to write a book and he says
\nwhatever you do don’t write a book it would just burn off so much so so that was a kind of go look for me anybody gives me a challenge like that I’m off<\/p>\n
00:16:04,640 and all of a sudden this idea came to me and I was based on choose
\nyour adventure books which I don’t know if you read them as a kid I did
\nyet I I’m not a lot but a few of my did and I did enjoy them that jump to
\nanother page isn’t it yeah so you got to you know you’re given a choice<\/p>\n
00:16:21,680 do you go left you go up the mountain do you go down the river and you
\ngo to the page so I just thought it would lend itself the stories would
\nlend themselves really well so it’s a it’s a choose your own adventure type book I can’t use as choose your own adventure because it is trademarks
\n00:16:35,360 I’m really managed to sue there was the film out a couple of years ago
\nblack mirror chaps made so they sued him for label and it was a choose
\nyour own adventure but it’s a choose your own adventure type book so there’s a story happens and you have to make a decision and as the reader you decide<\/p>\n
00:16:55,200 what you’re going to do are you going to go into battle with this person
\nare you going to give up on this idea are you going to take the easy
\nroute because that’s what they’re asking you to do or you’re going to
\nfight so each each story in there’s 10 stories and then there’s some other<\/p>\n
00:17:09,280 stories in there as well which I’ll explain in a minute but each story has a decision to make and sometimes there’s other decisions further in and and then you get the outcome of that decision and with them
\nfollowing that there’s a fable so a bit like he stops fable which again as quite<\/p>\n
00:17:27,440 another quirky story all the stories are true but they’re not based on real people so that you know the stories happen to me but the characters
\naren’t real and then with the fable you get the learning so if it’s about
\nstakeholder management or if it’s about how to identify risk or if it’s dealing<\/p>\n
00:17:43,120 with a difficult person there’s the learning and the site that goes with it
\nthat you get from a story and then there’s a tool that you can use and
\nthat’s linked to the decisions you make so you can directly relate the
\ndecisions to a tool that would either help you with that decision or that if<\/p>\n
00:18:00,320 you went through it again you would use that tool and you wouldn’t end
\nup with a game over kind of a sign so it’s very gamified and it takes you
\nthrough all of it and they’re quite I think they’re quite funny stories
\nthey’re quite you know they’re individual stories and that they happen to me but they’re<\/p>\n
00:18:15,840 all quite common you know they’re the kind of things that we’ve all
\nexperienced so I think it’s very relatable and then I say there’s a bunch
\nof tools that you can then go away and use enough the story to kind of
\napply to so you could work out in the situation what would I do next
\n00:18:32,000 and how would I go about doing it so it’s not a heavy tone it’s meant to
\nbe like harder to front with the learning and the tools. That sounds
\nexcellent so that gives you that that tooling and I suppose I don’t know
\nwhether you’re planning this the internal is it is it is it designed to be<\/p>\n
00:18:48,960 something you’re doing wrong or is it designed as something that you
\nhave a group say you’ve got a group of you in a room and you’re doing
\nsome training on project management is it designed to be able to do it
\nthat way as well? Yeah it’s I mean it wasn’t designed that way but that’s I’ve been<\/p>\n
00:19:05,440 thinking lately about how you turn into a team development tool as well so you could use it in a team day people could go off and you know
\nread out the story go off and make your decisions and come back with what you would do and how you would go about it and share that learning so it could<\/p>\n
00:19:20,240 it could easily be adapted to that I’m looking at building a kind of
\nmasterclass off the back of it and somebody I work a lot within that
\nhealth service still sort of maybe turn it into a game an actual board game so you know there’s oodles of ideas fine around yeah I’ve seen yeah you say<\/p>\n
00:19:38,640 this board game that’s a really good idea as well because I’ve seen all
\nof my previous conversations I’ve had with people about diversity and there’s some diversity games that are out there and we’ve you and
\nwe’re a couple of training courses that I’ve been on there there’s there’s ones<\/p>\n
00:19:58,080 mental health there’s seen a few mental health board games and then
\nanother one we did which was absolutely it was all about negotiation which a fantastic method of doing stuff which one of our senior members of the the organisation see a project people they play a god-like<\/p>\n
00:20:22,160 priest figure that allocates stones to gods and things I it’s all very thing
\nand then you go in there and you’re trying to you’re trying to deal with
\nthis and and you you’re inevitably fail but it when you play the end of
\nthe session and you go through it and they explain right when you did this
\n00:20:41,520 you were doing this this and this in your negotiation you’ve given up
\nyour your base acceptable bottom by by doing this or you had done this
\nreally well because you’ve done and there was all these things and and but it’s very you need someone who can facilitate it to be able<\/p>\n
00:21:00,320 to read the room and read what they’re doing very well but it’s a very
\nvery good way of caricature in what you would do where it’s normally it
\nwould be quite a boring reading through of this is how you negotiate this is you’re not<\/p>\n
00:21:15,360 rised where is that playing game-fying thing does does work and I can
\nkind of can kind of see how um yeah I’ve got this I’ve currently got this
\nimage of obviously with cube and the stuff that you guys are there I can see someone doing this session in in cube as well yeah that’s<\/p>\n
00:21:34,800 one of the other ideas you know master change in gymnastics class on
\ncube and different for not everyone know cube is but it’s a virtual work environment with lots of different campuses and different types of space what are you doing but you know whatever decision you make<\/p>\n
00:21:50,080 could take you to a different space so it might be off to see the chief
\nexec it might be to go and convince your team that this is a really good
\npiece of work it might be to go on a workshop on something or to say
\nno and go home and give up yeah so it could really work in the virtual space<\/p>\n
00:22:07,680 so because there’s a lot of ideas yeah because it helped and I don’t
\nmaybe from from your point of your own it sounded like from what you
\nwere saying there is a lot of your experience was in and I imagine with
\na scale of organization you had with NHS that you a lot of the work was<\/p>\n
00:22:22,960 matrixed and very virtualised I’m guessing you have did you have have
\nmany options where you had all of the team in the same room that was
\nyour team or was it very much this remote as we are now with a lot of
\nthings so traditionally and I’d say still probably in the main you know pre-COVID<\/p>\n
00:22:41,120 it was trying to get everyone in the room which again made it
\nimpossible to do anything you know trying to get clinicians from all over Scotland into a room to make a decision would take you months a
\nmonth just to get the date and the calendar so as I say I introduced cube quite early in that
\n00:22:56,320 innovation piece and we got some incredible things done I can
\nremember one particular project was it was around data what what data
\nis used for clinical decisions and getting clinicians together to agree a
\nsingle dataset which is really challenging because they’re really smart yeah and they’ve<\/p>\n
00:23:14,880 all got an opinion on what they think is the right data and they’ve all
\ndone the research and read you know all read different things so getting them together in a room to agree a dataset and then implement it
\nthey’ve been trying for like two years so I got them on to cube and three weeks later<\/p>\n
00:23:29,840 we’d agreed it prototype it tested it and implemented it and we did it
\nafter surgery because these were surgeons so we did it at the end of
\nthe day so we weren’t trying to get them out of you know they were still
\nable to do their job that washed up with a got a cup of tea we did at<\/p>\n
00:23:44,160 six o’clock just met for an hour a week and we just got on with it
\nbecause a cube creates this very level playing field it’s a really good
\nway to get rid of the hierarchy and strip out some of those opinions that
\nyou know that can get in the way I’m not saying people can still have opinions but<\/p>\n
00:24:01,920 there’s that there’s that thing that happens when you get people
\ntogether in a room. Why do you think that why do you think it is that that
\nthat things like cube and potentially things I suppose you look at the
\nmetaverse on its way then I know the cube is kind of a prequel to that in my view<\/p>\n
00:24:17,360 in some ways but there’s a better verse yeah better verse so why do
\nyou why do you think it does that why do you why do you think it makes
\nthat that I think the barrier is going to be yeah I think some of it is you’re
\nnot on camera there’s none of the visuals there’s none of the past year in that<\/p>\n
00:24:33,360 goes on people relax into the space really quickly it’s quite hard to
\nexplain kind of after experience it but you’re you’re all these little kind of chunky cue bots we call them you don’t look like humans you you’re
\nreally listening internally we’ve got ways of working so people aren’t 00:24:50,480 talking over each other we write on stickiness before we talk so everyone gets to put their opinion up we do something called spin casting where we check in with everyone in alphabetical order so
\neveryone knows they’re going to get to get a say so there’s not that initial everyone jumping in with<\/p>\n
00:25:06,400 what they think the right answer is because we do it in a very different way and I think it just creates because everyone looks the same and everyone’s got a smile on the face it just creates a really nice environment and people just get on with it and because everybody that’s the thing everybody<\/p>\n
00:25:24,560 wants the good results they’re not they’re not disagreeing because they
\nwant a bad outcome yeah there’s almost like the two passionate about
\na good outcome to give up on what they think is the right answer so it’s
\nnot that anybody wants it to be a bad thing and it just gives them that it’s it’s quite a<\/p>\n
00:25:40,480 psychological safe space to be able to to have the dialogue without
\ntrying to win or when the argument all the time and get their views in
\nfirst and you can you can facilitate that face to face but it’s harder yeah
\nand I think it’s it’s kind of because what’s running through my mind there is a kind of<\/p>\n
00:26:02,400 if you’re on a conference call and as you say it’s kind of in in the behaviors that you would have in a when we used to have a funnier talking at someone the other day when they were talking about
\nconference calls about the fact that not long before they all blocked down and stuff conference calls was what<\/p>\n
00:26:21,760 everyone was on rather than on video zoom chats and that was the
\nthing and the behavior on the on the conference call without a video call was that you would have people on mute they would be working away
\nwell on the call and knowing that some and I think again that the way to get around<\/p>\n
00:26:38,640 that is that knowing that you’re coming to those people with a with them
\non their and you’re expecting them to contribute something through that does does draw that and you can do it in a you can be a imagine you
\ncan be a little bit more bullish with people in that virtual environment
\n00:27:00,560 than in a physical environment of if someone is sat on their phone in a
\nphysical environment to call them out over it or on the laptop to call
\nthem out over it’s quite difficult to do yeah virtual environment you can’t always see them doing it<\/p>\n
00:27:19,120 but again is how do you do that so cube doesn’t have cameras on
\nwhich I think help so you’re really listening to what people are saying you’re not making any judgments and we do it without thinking you
\nknow somebody’s rolling their eyes or roll you know and that you know sometimes it’s<\/p>\n
00:27:36,560 okay to roll your eyes because we all do these things but the thing is you roll your eyes for again you make an assumption of why some of
\nrolls are right don’t you yeah you see roll the rise and you go oh they’re not happy with that they might be thinking oh why did<\/p>\n
00:27:50,320 I think of that I’m so making an assumption and you’re reacting to it so
\nyou can see something has been negative that isn’t so I think it gets it
\ndoes get rid of a lot of that that happens the other thing I think with cubus it’s full of eddies tools which we call pets<\/p>\n
00:28:06,000 performance and enhancement tools so we’ll bring something up if
\nwe’re doing a business case or a project brief and we’ll all just put up
\nsticky notes onto the template and it’s so fast you can’t be on your
\nemail or your phone because you’ll miss it yeah and we don’t have long sessions we wouldn’t<\/p>\n
00:28:23,840 have a three hour meeting on cube we would have a 30 minute session and we would just get some worked on and we might have that we have them more frequently so a cube team meet every day for 15
\nminutes for coffee and we do what we need to do we wouldn’t dream of having a three hour team<\/p>\n
00:28:39,680 meet it because that’s when people are drifting off and people haven’t
\ngot that but if you know you’re going to be in 15 minutes you’re all going
\nto share what you’re doing for the next two days update each other ask for help and it’s just 15 minutes you just very focused<\/p>\n
00:28:52,000 which is hard to do virtually and I think some of the challenge with what we’ve now got with kind of zoom teams is we’ve just exported all of
\nwhat we did in the old world into this I say virtual but I just you know into the video call world so we’ve got all of our bad behaviors
\n00:29:13,600 into this world and it’s worse because we’re all looking at ourselves
\nyeah which is really energy your brain is just going I don’t want to look
\nat myself for three hours no I try to go we haven’t we haven’t learned
\nhow to work in this space yet I don’t think I agree I think that whole<\/p>\n
00:29:30,560 what it’s I described it as performance fatigue and if it’s ally liking it to
\nthe fact that if you’re running a workshop at a face to face workshop and you on your own and you’re running two or twenty people or
\nwhatever you are the person at the front you are performing all the time you<\/p>\n
00:29:51,680 are on it all the time and at the end of those days when you’re doing those sessions you’re absolutely battered because you know that
\neverything you’re doing is part of what’s going on even when there’s
\nother people doing stuff you’re part of that whole thing and I think that’s the problem with that we<\/p>\n
00:30:06,960 all get on video is and we’re doing it a little bit now with this it’s harder
\nto do these kind of conversations because I’m still looking at myself
\nthinking am I looking at the camera am I looking at you while am I doing
\nthis me leg it while I want to take a drink you know you’re all these extra<\/p>\n
00:30:19,360 processing and then you get all of us in when we’re just on a call you
\ncan see yourself yeah you can’t pick up and and if you had a table of people and you were in that workshop or in that meeting you’re sad right someone’s talking over there great you’re not you might be<\/p>\n
00:30:40,800 listening but you’re not being looked at so you immediately go you’re
\nyou’re demeanor will relax you will relax and you will just pay attention
\nand just there and then it’s back on you when then you were tense up yeah I’m doing and you change but when you’ve got the camera on you you’re on<\/p>\n
00:30:55,920 higher alert all the time aren’t you yeah yeah it’s all for yeah the
\nemotional energy and I’d I when we started in this lockdown thing I was very keen because I wanted to keep the relationships because I was
\nworried about people’s mental health put the video on this tour let’s each other make
\n00:31:12,320 sure that I know you’re okay you know I’m okay that kind of thing and it
\ndid occur to me eventually that actually that wasn’t necessarily a good
\nthing yeah though I do think it is useful to be on video depending on the
\nnature of the conversation but it’s certain things where if you’ve got a round<\/p>\n
00:31:29,600 grove in conversation on the team there’s no point doing it or if you are
\ndoing it say right guys when you’ve got your bit on pop your camera on
\nthat was potentially beneficial but the rest of the time it’s like you can
\nturn the camera off and you’re suddenly sat back and relaxed like you would<\/p>\n
00:31:47,600 be in the meeting at the and maybe in the meeting you’ll be checking
\nyour phone or checking your laptop email or whatever but actually the energy level that you have to expend is massively reduced and we’ve
\nforgotten that you can just pick up your phone and call someone yeah I know my phone<\/p>\n
00:32:03,200 rang the other day I nearly fell over yeah you don’t need to put an hours
\nmeeting in no that’s it I call them if you’re on cube you can just send
\nthem a little message in the lobby and have a five-minute cup of tea
\nand a chat I think is what we do I think the I am and using I am in a manner and using rooms<\/p>\n
00:32:20,800 within those is a really good way of doing it I think you’re right we do
\nend up having meetings like I’ve set mine all up so that it only ever books are meeting for either 10 25 50 you know I mean knocking off those five minutes at the end as well so which I’m not very good at keeping to<\/p>\n
00:32:39,760 but I was never that good at keeping to half an hour I mean it was always going to go to 35 minutes so now if I’m aiming at 25 and I’m
\nended up at 30 we’re still getting an improvement yeah but I do I’ve my
\ndiary now I’ve changed it to be in every 15 minutes as the break down on<\/p>\n
00:32:58,000 it so I can see whether slots are and try to do that but then that does
\ndoes the smaller things can a lot of context which you know I find is can
\nbe quite tiring as well so if you go back to back meeting switching from
\none project to another it’s yeah you’re not and you’re not going to have time
\n00:33:18,400 or energy to do any of the actual work yeah and that’s it I’m blocking out
\ntime and and having breaks and things like that I think it’s something
\nthat we’ve we I think we do it when you’re in an office when you’re sat
\nwith a bunch of people someone starts talking about last night’s football<\/p>\n
00:33:38,480 or last night’s bake off or last night’s love island you have a you have a break because you talk to someone about you have to do a skate this
\nyear yeah you either got to go or you’re going to join in you go what either way but either way you are you you haven’t an mental break yeah it’s not as<\/p>\n
00:33:57,360 intense yeah and whereas when you’re at home that bang to bang to
\nbang to bang to bang and I found that I even at the end of the day you
\nstill have a commute and I hit the situation where I step out of my door
\ninto being dead and being husband straight away and I never had that break and I think<\/p>\n
00:34:17,040 when you’d had a day of bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang
\nbang bang bang and so and it broke me to be quite frank listeners all
\nknow and then and I got to the point where I decided right now since
\ngetting back into to work again it’s it’s a case of going right I’m not doing I’m not getting<\/p>\n
00:34:35,760 burnt through the day if I’ve got a day that looks like I’m going to be
\nhammered I do something about it yeah yeah it’s interesting because I
\nwas seeing I kind of observe observing all of that during the the kind of first lockdown and see him you know what was happening I’d been working remotely for<\/p>\n
00:34:56,240 probably three or four years so it was it was you know the same for me
\nand then started working for myself as well so I’ve more observed it
\nthan in part of it but Joe Stanford do I work with in the NHS quite a lot
\num ask me with um to to work with a neuroscientist called tibbi uh tibbi Vera and to<\/p>\n
00:35:17,520 look at how we can create some training and learning around that kind
\nof psychological space using neuroscience understanding what’s going
\non with all of that and learning how to hack your brain and do various
\nthings and we’ve introduced so we’ve we’ve introduced that in parts of the NHS
\n00:35:37,280 and the the we’re just getting such good feedback from it you can just kind of hear a real switching people again it’s the very practical
\nhands-on thing we use Lego series play quite a lot for it which allows
\nyou to really tap into what’s going on so is the scenario build it what’s what what do<\/p>\n
00:35:55,120 you feel and as soon as you connect the feelings to what’s going on
\nconsciously in your brain you can start to shift that and we’ve just it’s
\njust been amazing to see this the kind of I mean the best way to learn is
\ninsights you know we talked earlier about the you know game you find things you’ll get<\/p>\n
00:36:11,520 you insights if you have a go at it which is the only way really you can
\nyou can learn and make real change half of yourself so be now to apply
\nreal life scenarios and building it and understanding physically what’s
\ngoing on emotionally what’s going on mentally what’s going on to shift that<\/p>\n
00:36:28,960 and and I think that I think we’re going to see a lot more of that kind of thing in the next couple years because you say there’s the burnout
\nthere’s people wanting to go back to the office so they can have that commute I mean who wants a commute really yeah yeah yeah I know there are no traffic for<\/p>\n
00:36:43,920 40 minutes just so you can do that that switch between so we need to
\nreally I think put a lot of time and effort into this otherwise people are
\ngoing to be really really affected in the next couple years with with
\nburnout and their wellbeing well it’s goodbye from me Nigel Kreese and it’s<\/p>\n
00:36:59,680 goodbye from him the Sunday lunch pm goodbye well I hope you enjoyed that first part interview with Tammy come back in a couple weeks and we’ll have the second installment in a meantime look have yourself cheers next bye<\/p>\n
00:37:17,840 [MUSIC]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
n 7e27e7713fe31779ada9ec7dea40c61c.m4a 00:00:00,000 [Music] Hi and welcome to the Sunday Lunch Project Manager podcast for Sunday the 7th of August. And today we have Tammy Watchhorn, the Changed Ninja. 00:00:23,920 [Music] So this week we are again sportive at Hamplow. Hamplow is an online tool that turns meetings into actions and has a number of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[187],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-999","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-transcripts"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/999","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=999"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/999\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1221,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/999\/revisions\/1221"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=999"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=999"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nigelcreaser.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=999"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}