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00:00:00,000 [Music] Hi and welcome to the Sunday Lunch Project Manager podcast for Sunday the 7th of August. And today we have Tammy Watchhorn, the Changed Ninja.
00:00:23,920 [Music] So this week we are again sportive at Hamplow. Hamplow is an online tool that turns meetings into actions and has a number of different features.
00:00:48,800 The video I’m going to talk about today is around the project and task
management and the follow-up. Essentially you have a clear dashboard
that shows you an overview of schedule tasks, alert tasks for late tasks and overview of teams progress.
00:01:02,880 So as you jump into your outlook and be endeavoured by that morass
of email that we get, you can create your own daily plan in there or you can as a project manager you may be assigning tasks to people. And those people can look at those have their own daily plans adding in their own specific items they’ve
00:01:20,320 got to do as well as the things allocated to them. The problem project
management point of view you get a dedicated dashboard will list the
tasks and what people are working on in each project and there’s a load of collaboration capability in there.
00:01:32,160 With a goal again no task left undone, more efficiency and motivation
and clear action plans. So if you want to see what this is all about jump
onto tinyurourout.com/nigelcrisetamplow at all with Nigelcrisetamplow. Have fun!
00:01:50,800 Well these weeks seem to be scooting along really quick, doesn’t seem
like a four nights in the last time I recorded one of these. I’ve just
finished this week for my first holiday, I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got,
00:02:17,760 was it seven days, ten days, I can’t remember where, off now, which is great so scooting away, I’m getting along to watch some of the Commonwealth games on Monday going to watch the judo there
cheering on the, well all of the home nations teams mainly the England one,
00:02:36,960 that’s supposed to put it as a minute to be English but a bit high in 57 to
actually probably cheer them all on. So I’m really looking forward to that and looking forward to spend some time waiting for the family and chilling out for a few weeks for Chelikis as project managers is so
00:02:51,520 important for us to disconnect so I’m locking laptops in, cupboards and
not taking them with me and kind of being, being present for another
better word. But what’s happened over the last couple of weeks, it’s been just busy days at work trying to
00:03:10,640 get myself sorted as ready for holidays, we all do, always find that last
day for holiday, you feel even more productive than you do the rest of
the time. And yeah I just received recently a copy of Tammy’s book, Dr Tammy Watch, who you’ve got to let’s do it a minute, the changing
00:03:31,760 injure handbook so I may take that along with me and that will be part
of my summer reading. And just a little note for your diary on that,
Tammy’s book actually comes out on the 22nd of August so it’s the day
after the second part of this show goes out so there’s a good chance
00:03:51,200 you’ll miss it in there, I think she’s got a special offer of 99 pence on
that day. And what she is asking is if people can just maybe focus on
say 10 o’clock I think it is a bite around then and that’ll help with visibility and for it to be for people to see how well
00:04:09,840 it’s doing. And to be honest at 99p that’s an absolute bargain, I’ve got a
physical copy but the 99p digital one on Amazon I’m going to grab as
well. There’ll be links in the show, no? So or just pop along to the shop
and you’ll have to grab it there but like as you put it in a calendar
00:04:28,960 little warning to go and grab it on the 22nd. And yeah I’m kind of done a
couple of great podcast conversations which I’m looking forward to in the back end of the year. Those should be great fun. Had some
interesting technical challenges in that typically within recording I’ve been using Zoom
00:04:52,320 which has been great, we’re easy, that’s simple. Zoom have now implemented even for the one to one it, conversations are 40 minute
limit. As you know I’m kind of bootstrapped with this and kind of don’t
have a lot of cash not going around to build fun podcasts. So I’ve been looking at alternatives
00:05:12,320 so I’m probably going to be trying a new product called Riverside FM so
we’ll see what that’s like after the summer holidays because now I’m
not recording any more podcasts until September time which is just the
way it is I suppose, good time to have a bit of a break. So that’s it, I’m going
00:05:31,920 to be short sweet today. Some people say oh really yeah and let you
get listening to the change ninja Dr Tammy Watchhorn. Today I’d like to welcome Dr Tammy Watchhorn, the change ninja to the podcast. Tammy has a background in project and program management, organizational change and innovation
00:05:58,080 alongside many years of mentoring, designing and facilitating
workshops events and training using face to face and virtual solutions,
basically helping individuals and teams be their best. She’s a change
agent, educator, facilitator, innovator, coach and currently is director of
00:06:16,400 and I don’t know how to say spoke and ask, and hopefully not chat. And chat, director of Pentechle Scotland and an associate sparking
performance. So that’s we’ll find out what all those are in a bit. So Tammy welcome to the show.
00:06:31,840 Thank you for having me great to be here. So do you want to just give
people a little bit of background where you’re from what you’re doing? Yeah so my background is as you say lots of project management and
big organizational change. I worked in the National Health Service for a long time.
00:06:49,920 And kind of went through the ranks that most people do. First you do the project management, getting to program management, sort of a more strategic and some of the bigger change programs did all the
certification and then I sit in a room for five days to pass and get the certificate
00:07:07,280 and lastly moved into innovation. And my big kind of insight I think in
that journey or towards the end I guess the last few years was that all of
the change required you to work in different ways with people because
it was all about people. It wasn’t about process, it wasn’t about getting
00:07:27,680 the certificate, it wasn’t about having a risk register, it was about how you navigate system which is built around processes that you can’t change but mostly guarded by people. And so I particularly for
innovation focused all of my efforts and energy on how can we innovate 00:07:44,480 how we work and change how we work together and collaborate to do
good stuff rather than focusing on gadgets and shiny things that might
look good but they’re just gadgets and shiny things. Yeah that sounds fair. And where are you in the UK obviously from?
00:08:00,480 I know that but whereabouts in the UK are you? I am in Scotland
recently moved out to the country so I moved from being a city girl into the sticks and just starting to explore what that’s like.
00:08:13,680 Right I see that makes a very big different exploring thing from our
conversation area. Big change is a big change for an engine to make.
Yeah that’s massive change massive. Well it’s great to have you on and obviously the one thing
00:08:26,240 that we are talking about is your new book that I believe you said is out 00:08:36,240 in August. That’s just a third. That’s it. Change Ninja Handbook. 00:08:46,800
Yeah. And we’ve got another bunch of items that we’re in what you’re doing at the moment so what’s a change Ninja?
So I have all of these stories of trying to lead and deliver change and
take people with me and get other teams leading change and as I say it
was always really challenging and the what I found was if you tried to
do it down tried to make change happen using the traditional process
00:09:06,480 and groups you just got stuck the health services just so against risk it’s
high on bureaucracy it’s high on governance it’s very hierarchical so
nothing happened and I kind of realized that to get anything done you
had to stay a little bit under the radar focus on people and individuals working
00:09:25,360 you know working out who you need to get on board and and shift in
that and I started to get some traction and started to really shift things. I introduced things like cube which is cube with a cube which was a virtual web working way way before covid and lockdown and it completely changed
00:09:45,040 how I worked. Nothing you’ve had Eddie O’Benn go ahead. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So I started working with Eddie and it was just completely transformed it really innovated how we worked we started being more productive we were more efficient we had more fun we were doing proper collaboration
00:10:00,240 we were getting more time back to do more value added stuff I actually
got rid of email in the health service which nobody believes me but I managed to get rid of my inbox pretty much because we just started
working in it if it might but we had to keep it couldn’t go up at a senior level it couldn’t
00:10:16,080 be a big roll out thing so it was done where it was needed and people got interested and kind of creating that community of other change
ninjas delivering the results but not you know not boasting about how
we’ve done it or bragging about the ways of doing it and just just getting it in
00:10:33,200 in that ninja way you know and other people will often take credit for it which was fine you know find somebody who will own this at a senior
level and talk about it you can get much more done so it was I had all of
these stories they’re quite funny because we we’re going to battle every day
00:10:49,680 quite often in organisations trying to get things done and trying to understand why those battles were and how to navigate around them
and and I wanted to do something funny with them I wanted to get them out there but make them kind of teachable moments and learning moments for people in a fun way
00:11:08,160 which is where the change in ninja handbook kind of came up as a very
interactive gamified adventure book it’s very different to your typical
academic home of how to make things happen I like that I like the idea
of that it’s something that it’s kind of a scratch the surface of well the the
00:11:26,800 title of this podcast and my book which around that kind of trying to do
something around educating through parody through stories and things
like that on the project management tools and techniques rather than as you say there are some actually I think if you look at the academic
00:11:46,800 tomes that are out there there’s some amazing work that’s already be
done it’s already there and if that’s what you need is the PMI’s the
APMs the all those organizations invest a lot of time a lot of money
getting those things academically right and that’s brilliant and they should work but the
00:12:08,720 problem is is as you kind of alluded to there once you put some squishy
humans in and they’re different drivers different backgrounds different experience different cultures that’s when things you have to adapt
things to be able to get stuff done and whether it’s with your team or your stakeholders
00:12:32,080 and it’s yeah you can see it can be frustrating can’t it where you can you think why aren’t those people doing what I need them to do it’s obvious to me but being able to understand what they’re saying what
their point of view and what’s there nothing you mentioned risk earlier that risk a
00:12:58,880 and having to convince the life service people are taking it to run
convincing them that an understanding that actually me doing this to them make all them to be working the weekend and away from their family therefore why should they take
00:13:14,480 that risk unless I’ve got a way of fixing if it goes wrong yeah and I think I
think that’s really important because I think quite often the risk aversion
isn’t real risk aversion it’s just something that that person they’ve got a reason for not wanting to do a particular thing and so the the
00:13:32,800 old idea of the change ninja is trying to understand why and finding
ways to shift them so that they can see the value of what it is you’re
trying to do and so really working on individual by individual basis which
sounds like you know it’s quite time consuming but if you can get those people on board
00:13:51,680 really early you can you can make up but you know you make a
progress so quickly you’ll get things out there and they’ll champion it so
really investing in understanding individuals and their perspectives and approaching things from there you know putting yourselves in this
00:14:07,840 tacky saying they put yourselves in their shoes but really trying to
understand what it is that would shift their thinking so that it’s a positive
for them yeah well that putting yourself in their shoes is a as you say it’s kind of a little bit of a clich but it’s it’s an illustration of
00:14:24,080 of making you think about actually if I think about that point then the old
term walker mile in someone else’s shoes isn’t it that same thing of and to be for you criticize something or understand why they are aren’t doing something and I’ve done it myself where you sit there banging your head
00:14:38,160 against wall thinking about that why is this person so against me and
my project and it’s not about me and my project but I love to see others
where I’ve got a podcast it’s all about me isn’t it so but do you know I
mean it’s it’s not about you it’s not about your project it’s about them and it’s
00:14:57,600 about their their commitments and it’s about their team even or it might
be their customers or in like really it’s just it might be their patients that
they that’s who they are really worried about and getting without getting
putting yourself in their place you’re never going to get it are you
00:15:15,760 and no I suppose asking is part of this as well yeah they might know
things that you don’t so again you know they might be saying no for a very good reason so there’s a lot of learning to be had in those
engagements as well brilliant so tell us a bit about what’s the structure of the book what’s
00:15:33,600 the kind of a bit of I think you’ve given us a little bit of an outline there kind of how do you pull this together tell us more so that was the
challenge so assistant on all these stories so two challenges one how
do you how do you present things in a different way that’s going to be
00:15:48,400 interesting and people are going to get something from and two I said I
mentioned to Eddie that I’d always wanted to write a book and he says
whatever you do don’t write a book it would just burn off so much so so that was a kind of go look for me anybody gives me a challenge like that I’m off
00:16:04,640 and all of a sudden this idea came to me and I was based on choose
your adventure books which I don’t know if you read them as a kid I did
yet I I’m not a lot but a few of my did and I did enjoy them that jump to
another page isn’t it yeah so you got to you know you’re given a choice
00:16:21,680 do you go left you go up the mountain do you go down the river and you
go to the page so I just thought it would lend itself the stories would
lend themselves really well so it’s a it’s a choose your own adventure type book I can’t use as choose your own adventure because it is trademarks
00:16:35,360 I’m really managed to sue there was the film out a couple of years ago
black mirror chaps made so they sued him for label and it was a choose
your own adventure but it’s a choose your own adventure type book so there’s a story happens and you have to make a decision and as the reader you decide
00:16:55,200 what you’re going to do are you going to go into battle with this person
are you going to give up on this idea are you going to take the easy
route because that’s what they’re asking you to do or you’re going to
fight so each each story in there’s 10 stories and then there’s some other
00:17:09,280 stories in there as well which I’ll explain in a minute but each story has a decision to make and sometimes there’s other decisions further in and and then you get the outcome of that decision and with them
following that there’s a fable so a bit like he stops fable which again as quite
00:17:27,440 another quirky story all the stories are true but they’re not based on real people so that you know the stories happen to me but the characters
aren’t real and then with the fable you get the learning so if it’s about
stakeholder management or if it’s about how to identify risk or if it’s dealing
00:17:43,120 with a difficult person there’s the learning and the site that goes with it
that you get from a story and then there’s a tool that you can use and
that’s linked to the decisions you make so you can directly relate the
decisions to a tool that would either help you with that decision or that if
00:18:00,320 you went through it again you would use that tool and you wouldn’t end
up with a game over kind of a sign so it’s very gamified and it takes you
through all of it and they’re quite I think they’re quite funny stories
they’re quite you know they’re individual stories and that they happen to me but they’re
00:18:15,840 all quite common you know they’re the kind of things that we’ve all
experienced so I think it’s very relatable and then I say there’s a bunch
of tools that you can then go away and use enough the story to kind of
apply to so you could work out in the situation what would I do next
00:18:32,000 and how would I go about doing it so it’s not a heavy tone it’s meant to
be like harder to front with the learning and the tools. That sounds
excellent so that gives you that that tooling and I suppose I don’t know
whether you’re planning this the internal is it is it is it designed to be
00:18:48,960 something you’re doing wrong or is it designed as something that you
have a group say you’ve got a group of you in a room and you’re doing
some training on project management is it designed to be able to do it
that way as well? Yeah it’s I mean it wasn’t designed that way but that’s I’ve been
00:19:05,440 thinking lately about how you turn into a team development tool as well so you could use it in a team day people could go off and you know
read out the story go off and make your decisions and come back with what you would do and how you would go about it and share that learning so it could
00:19:20,240 it could easily be adapted to that I’m looking at building a kind of
masterclass off the back of it and somebody I work a lot within that
health service still sort of maybe turn it into a game an actual board game so you know there’s oodles of ideas fine around yeah I’ve seen yeah you say
00:19:38,640 this board game that’s a really good idea as well because I’ve seen all
of my previous conversations I’ve had with people about diversity and there’s some diversity games that are out there and we’ve you and
we’re a couple of training courses that I’ve been on there there’s there’s ones
00:19:58,080 mental health there’s seen a few mental health board games and then
another one we did which was absolutely it was all about negotiation which a fantastic method of doing stuff which one of our senior members of the the organisation see a project people they play a god-like
00:20:22,160 priest figure that allocates stones to gods and things I it’s all very thing
and then you go in there and you’re trying to you’re trying to deal with
this and and you you’re inevitably fail but it when you play the end of
the session and you go through it and they explain right when you did this
00:20:41,520 you were doing this this and this in your negotiation you’ve given up
your your base acceptable bottom by by doing this or you had done this
really well because you’ve done and there was all these things and and but it’s very you need someone who can facilitate it to be able
00:21:00,320 to read the room and read what they’re doing very well but it’s a very
very good way of caricature in what you would do where it’s normally it
would be quite a boring reading through of this is how you negotiate this is you’re not
00:21:15,360 rised where is that playing game-fying thing does does work and I can
kind of can kind of see how um yeah I’ve got this I’ve currently got this
image of obviously with cube and the stuff that you guys are there I can see someone doing this session in in cube as well yeah that’s
00:21:34,800 one of the other ideas you know master change in gymnastics class on
cube and different for not everyone know cube is but it’s a virtual work environment with lots of different campuses and different types of space what are you doing but you know whatever decision you make
00:21:50,080 could take you to a different space so it might be off to see the chief
exec it might be to go and convince your team that this is a really good
piece of work it might be to go on a workshop on something or to say
no and go home and give up yeah so it could really work in the virtual space
00:22:07,680 so because there’s a lot of ideas yeah because it helped and I don’t
maybe from from your point of your own it sounded like from what you
were saying there is a lot of your experience was in and I imagine with
a scale of organization you had with NHS that you a lot of the work was
00:22:22,960 matrixed and very virtualised I’m guessing you have did you have have
many options where you had all of the team in the same room that was
your team or was it very much this remote as we are now with a lot of
things so traditionally and I’d say still probably in the main you know pre-COVID
00:22:41,120 it was trying to get everyone in the room which again made it
impossible to do anything you know trying to get clinicians from all over Scotland into a room to make a decision would take you months a
month just to get the date and the calendar so as I say I introduced cube quite early in that
00:22:56,320 innovation piece and we got some incredible things done I can
remember one particular project was it was around data what what data
is used for clinical decisions and getting clinicians together to agree a
single dataset which is really challenging because they’re really smart yeah and they’ve
00:23:14,880 all got an opinion on what they think is the right data and they’ve all
done the research and read you know all read different things so getting them together in a room to agree a dataset and then implement it
they’ve been trying for like two years so I got them on to cube and three weeks later
00:23:29,840 we’d agreed it prototype it tested it and implemented it and we did it
after surgery because these were surgeons so we did it at the end of
the day so we weren’t trying to get them out of you know they were still
able to do their job that washed up with a got a cup of tea we did at
00:23:44,160 six o’clock just met for an hour a week and we just got on with it
because a cube creates this very level playing field it’s a really good
way to get rid of the hierarchy and strip out some of those opinions that
you know that can get in the way I’m not saying people can still have opinions but
00:24:01,920 there’s that there’s that thing that happens when you get people
together in a room. Why do you think that why do you think it is that that
that things like cube and potentially things I suppose you look at the
metaverse on its way then I know the cube is kind of a prequel to that in my view
00:24:17,360 in some ways but there’s a better verse yeah better verse so why do
you why do you think it does that why do you why do you think it makes
that that I think the barrier is going to be yeah I think some of it is you’re
not on camera there’s none of the visuals there’s none of the past year in that
00:24:33,360 goes on people relax into the space really quickly it’s quite hard to
explain kind of after experience it but you’re you’re all these little kind of chunky cue bots we call them you don’t look like humans you you’re
really listening internally we’ve got ways of working so people aren’t 00:24:50,480 talking over each other we write on stickiness before we talk so everyone gets to put their opinion up we do something called spin casting where we check in with everyone in alphabetical order so
everyone knows they’re going to get to get a say so there’s not that initial everyone jumping in with
00:25:06,400 what they think the right answer is because we do it in a very different way and I think it just creates because everyone looks the same and everyone’s got a smile on the face it just creates a really nice environment and people just get on with it and because everybody that’s the thing everybody
00:25:24,560 wants the good results they’re not they’re not disagreeing because they
want a bad outcome yeah there’s almost like the two passionate about
a good outcome to give up on what they think is the right answer so it’s
not that anybody wants it to be a bad thing and it just gives them that it’s it’s quite a
00:25:40,480 psychological safe space to be able to to have the dialogue without
trying to win or when the argument all the time and get their views in
first and you can you can facilitate that face to face but it’s harder yeah
and I think it’s it’s kind of because what’s running through my mind there is a kind of
00:26:02,400 if you’re on a conference call and as you say it’s kind of in in the behaviors that you would have in a when we used to have a funnier talking at someone the other day when they were talking about
conference calls about the fact that not long before they all blocked down and stuff conference calls was what
00:26:21,760 everyone was on rather than on video zoom chats and that was the
thing and the behavior on the on the conference call without a video call was that you would have people on mute they would be working away
well on the call and knowing that some and I think again that the way to get around
00:26:38,640 that is that knowing that you’re coming to those people with a with them
on their and you’re expecting them to contribute something through that does does draw that and you can do it in a you can be a imagine you
can be a little bit more bullish with people in that virtual environment
00:27:00,560 than in a physical environment of if someone is sat on their phone in a
physical environment to call them out over it or on the laptop to call
them out over it’s quite difficult to do yeah virtual environment you can’t always see them doing it
00:27:19,120 but again is how do you do that so cube doesn’t have cameras on
which I think help so you’re really listening to what people are saying you’re not making any judgments and we do it without thinking you
know somebody’s rolling their eyes or roll you know and that you know sometimes it’s
00:27:36,560 okay to roll your eyes because we all do these things but the thing is you roll your eyes for again you make an assumption of why some of
rolls are right don’t you yeah you see roll the rise and you go oh they’re not happy with that they might be thinking oh why did
00:27:50,320 I think of that I’m so making an assumption and you’re reacting to it so
you can see something has been negative that isn’t so I think it gets it
does get rid of a lot of that that happens the other thing I think with cubus it’s full of eddies tools which we call pets
00:28:06,000 performance and enhancement tools so we’ll bring something up if
we’re doing a business case or a project brief and we’ll all just put up
sticky notes onto the template and it’s so fast you can’t be on your
email or your phone because you’ll miss it yeah and we don’t have long sessions we wouldn’t
00:28:23,840 have a three hour meeting on cube we would have a 30 minute session and we would just get some worked on and we might have that we have them more frequently so a cube team meet every day for 15
minutes for coffee and we do what we need to do we wouldn’t dream of having a three hour team
00:28:39,680 meet it because that’s when people are drifting off and people haven’t
got that but if you know you’re going to be in 15 minutes you’re all going
to share what you’re doing for the next two days update each other ask for help and it’s just 15 minutes you just very focused
00:28:52,000 which is hard to do virtually and I think some of the challenge with what we’ve now got with kind of zoom teams is we’ve just exported all of
what we did in the old world into this I say virtual but I just you know into the video call world so we’ve got all of our bad behaviors
00:29:13,600 into this world and it’s worse because we’re all looking at ourselves
yeah which is really energy your brain is just going I don’t want to look
at myself for three hours no I try to go we haven’t we haven’t learned
how to work in this space yet I don’t think I agree I think that whole
00:29:30,560 what it’s I described it as performance fatigue and if it’s ally liking it to
the fact that if you’re running a workshop at a face to face workshop and you on your own and you’re running two or twenty people or
whatever you are the person at the front you are performing all the time you
00:29:51,680 are on it all the time and at the end of those days when you’re doing those sessions you’re absolutely battered because you know that
everything you’re doing is part of what’s going on even when there’s
other people doing stuff you’re part of that whole thing and I think that’s the problem with that we
00:30:06,960 all get on video is and we’re doing it a little bit now with this it’s harder
to do these kind of conversations because I’m still looking at myself
thinking am I looking at the camera am I looking at you while am I doing
this me leg it while I want to take a drink you know you’re all these extra
00:30:19,360 processing and then you get all of us in when we’re just on a call you
can see yourself yeah you can’t pick up and and if you had a table of people and you were in that workshop or in that meeting you’re sad right someone’s talking over there great you’re not you might be
00:30:40,800 listening but you’re not being looked at so you immediately go you’re
you’re demeanor will relax you will relax and you will just pay attention
and just there and then it’s back on you when then you were tense up yeah I’m doing and you change but when you’ve got the camera on you you’re on
00:30:55,920 higher alert all the time aren’t you yeah yeah it’s all for yeah the
emotional energy and I’d I when we started in this lockdown thing I was very keen because I wanted to keep the relationships because I was
worried about people’s mental health put the video on this tour let’s each other make
00:31:12,320 sure that I know you’re okay you know I’m okay that kind of thing and it
did occur to me eventually that actually that wasn’t necessarily a good
thing yeah though I do think it is useful to be on video depending on the
nature of the conversation but it’s certain things where if you’ve got a round
00:31:29,600 grove in conversation on the team there’s no point doing it or if you are
doing it say right guys when you’ve got your bit on pop your camera on
that was potentially beneficial but the rest of the time it’s like you can
turn the camera off and you’re suddenly sat back and relaxed like you would
00:31:47,600 be in the meeting at the and maybe in the meeting you’ll be checking
your phone or checking your laptop email or whatever but actually the energy level that you have to expend is massively reduced and we’ve
forgotten that you can just pick up your phone and call someone yeah I know my phone
00:32:03,200 rang the other day I nearly fell over yeah you don’t need to put an hours
meeting in no that’s it I call them if you’re on cube you can just send
them a little message in the lobby and have a five-minute cup of tea
and a chat I think is what we do I think the I am and using I am in a manner and using rooms
00:32:20,800 within those is a really good way of doing it I think you’re right we do
end up having meetings like I’ve set mine all up so that it only ever books are meeting for either 10 25 50 you know I mean knocking off those five minutes at the end as well so which I’m not very good at keeping to
00:32:39,760 but I was never that good at keeping to half an hour I mean it was always going to go to 35 minutes so now if I’m aiming at 25 and I’m
ended up at 30 we’re still getting an improvement yeah but I do I’ve my
diary now I’ve changed it to be in every 15 minutes as the break down on
00:32:58,000 it so I can see whether slots are and try to do that but then that does
does the smaller things can a lot of context which you know I find is can
be quite tiring as well so if you go back to back meeting switching from
one project to another it’s yeah you’re not and you’re not going to have time
00:33:18,400 or energy to do any of the actual work yeah and that’s it I’m blocking out
time and and having breaks and things like that I think it’s something
that we’ve we I think we do it when you’re in an office when you’re sat
with a bunch of people someone starts talking about last night’s football
00:33:38,480 or last night’s bake off or last night’s love island you have a you have a break because you talk to someone about you have to do a skate this
year yeah you either got to go or you’re going to join in you go what either way but either way you are you you haven’t an mental break yeah it’s not as
00:33:57,360 intense yeah and whereas when you’re at home that bang to bang to
bang to bang to bang and I found that I even at the end of the day you
still have a commute and I hit the situation where I step out of my door
into being dead and being husband straight away and I never had that break and I think
00:34:17,040 when you’d had a day of bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang
bang bang bang and so and it broke me to be quite frank listeners all
know and then and I got to the point where I decided right now since
getting back into to work again it’s it’s a case of going right I’m not doing I’m not getting
00:34:35,760 burnt through the day if I’ve got a day that looks like I’m going to be
hammered I do something about it yeah yeah it’s interesting because I
was seeing I kind of observe observing all of that during the the kind of first lockdown and see him you know what was happening I’d been working remotely for
00:34:56,240 probably three or four years so it was it was you know the same for me
and then started working for myself as well so I’ve more observed it
than in part of it but Joe Stanford do I work with in the NHS quite a lot
um ask me with um to to work with a neuroscientist called tibbi uh tibbi Vera and to
00:35:17,520 look at how we can create some training and learning around that kind
of psychological space using neuroscience understanding what’s going
on with all of that and learning how to hack your brain and do various
things and we’ve introduced so we’ve we’ve introduced that in parts of the NHS
00:35:37,280 and the the we’re just getting such good feedback from it you can just kind of hear a real switching people again it’s the very practical
hands-on thing we use Lego series play quite a lot for it which allows
you to really tap into what’s going on so is the scenario build it what’s what what do
00:35:55,120 you feel and as soon as you connect the feelings to what’s going on
consciously in your brain you can start to shift that and we’ve just it’s
just been amazing to see this the kind of I mean the best way to learn is
insights you know we talked earlier about the you know game you find things you’ll get
00:36:11,520 you insights if you have a go at it which is the only way really you can
you can learn and make real change half of yourself so be now to apply
real life scenarios and building it and understanding physically what’s
going on emotionally what’s going on mentally what’s going on to shift that
00:36:28,960 and and I think that I think we’re going to see a lot more of that kind of thing in the next couple years because you say there’s the burnout
there’s people wanting to go back to the office so they can have that commute I mean who wants a commute really yeah yeah yeah I know there are no traffic for
00:36:43,920 40 minutes just so you can do that that switch between so we need to
really I think put a lot of time and effort into this otherwise people are
going to be really really affected in the next couple years with with
burnout and their wellbeing well it’s goodbye from me Nigel Kreese and it’s
00:36:59,680 goodbye from him the Sunday lunch pm goodbye well I hope you enjoyed that first part interview with Tammy come back in a couple weeks and we’ll have the second installment in a meantime look have yourself cheers next bye
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