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9aeae76c701ea3688a519d57f73fd18c.m4a
00:00:00,000 [MUSIC] In terms of PMO, you know the PMO much of you studying
from level one to level five, right? It’s an inform, you know, the infant stage to optimal stage.
00:00:13,520 Among all the PMO’s, 88% PMO still operating in level one. That means they have no defined processes, right? Level one, 88%, that means thing,
00:00:25,240 >> That’s crazy. >> How many people take? This phrase, it’s crazy. 00:00:32,000 That’s one of the business cases.
Why we came to solve this problem globally? Because, you know, these PMOs will get matured in next 10 to 20 years. So they need
quality contents, they need quality trainers, PMO trainers, they need,
00:00:46,960 you know, the good quality solutions. So that’s why we’re into this 00:01:08,760 particular area to solve problems. [MUSIC]
00:01:18,120
00:01:31,880 >> Hi, and welcome to the Sunday lunch project manager podcast for Sunday, the 5th of February, 2023. This is your host Nigel Priser.
And today we have Abdullah Al-Mamun, the PMO Global Institute guy. [MUSIC] Today, I’d like to welcome Abdullah Al-Mamun to the show.
Abdullah is a serial entrepreneur, Angel Investor, and a passionate project management professional. He is the founder or NCEO of PM Aspire Singapore,
00:01:42,560 which is a top ranked project management solution provider helping
professionals in 120 countries and seven international languages and has global offices in Singapore, Canada, Bangladesh, and UAE.
00:01:57,640 He was awarded the most influential CEO of 2018 by the Corporate Vision magazine of the UK. His company PM Aspire ranked among the top 30 growing, vastest growing companies in the Asia Pack region.
00:02:11,440 And in addition, PM Aspire has won National ICT Awards in 2018 for e-learning practices and AI-based PMO software. Abdullah has also created an AI character called Ali,
00:02:26,360 which is AI Intelligence for PMO software. Abdullah’s company PM
Aspire is one of the unique companies in the world offering the entire
project management suite, a one-stop service for project management.
00:02:41,200 And recently, I’m saying it’s recently, recently I heard about it. Abdullah is also founder and CEO of the PMO Global Institute, which is a Certification Body for PMO certifications.
00:02:55,640 And he’s on a mission to make PMO education available in 200
countries. Abdullah, welcome to the show. The nicest introduction ever. 00:03:07,520
00:03:11,280 I do think it really much because of you. No problem. No problem.
It’s great to have you on the show. Do you want to just give us a little bit more background, a little richer background from the back of that, where you’re from?
00:03:18,440 That’s sort of thing. Yeah, so yeah, that did my career in quite long back 00:03:31,160 in 2000. Yeah, I lived in 2000, right?
So my family used to live in the country called Quilt, and we moved
around here a bit, and we found a little down in Singapore. And yeah, so that’s almost like 15 years,
00:03:44,080 driving this profession with their journey as well as the career. And
that’s almost like last eight years into this entrepreneurship journey. So within these eight years, it hasn’t been quite landed.
00:03:55,920 Also, we have like now around eight companies, three big flagship companies. And one of them, you know, was in the industry is PM Global Institute. And one of the technical companies we have is PM Aspire, Singapore,
00:04:13,840 which is actually keeping all these different companies from the 00:04:20,200 technologies and the particular institutions. Yeah. 00:04:29,560
Brilliant. So today, I think today, really, the area that we’re going to talk about, we’re going to talk about the PM Global Institute.
That’s the bit I want to get into, but it’s quite interesting. It’s kind of the
fact that you’re entrepreneur and angel investment, and that sort of thing.
00:04:39,200 How do you want to talk a little bit about that, about how you, what made you want to be an entrepreneur? What made you want to start businesses and obviously as an investor,
00:04:49,040 what do you look for in opportunities? Well, that’s a very good question,
00:05:01,600 I can get to know. I was a sales day in my profession earlier, right?
Right. And I’m a business graduate, majoring in finance and butter and marketing. And I work for many local and international companies,
00:05:14,320 and multiple companies, different business, and other sales roles. So 00:05:23,160 once, you know, it’s a very interesting connection,
it sales with project management. And once I become the company manager and being in big roles, so I had to actually bring a lot of projects and sales wrestling.
00:05:33,440 One of these projects were coming like million dollar projects. Then,
you know, I have to get involved with the project management that you know, get the delivery, then get the payments,
00:05:41,160 get the delivery, get the payments, right? So then I really, you know,
started liking the field of project management. I’m talking about the journey of 2009-10.
00:05:51,720 Right. Then I realized, oh my God, there are people who are being
being certified, they are managing for them, they are making big, big, big, you know, they’re actually doing good.
00:06:00,160 Career and also they’re making a lot of money. Then I realized, why 00:06:04,840 not? I give it a try.
Yeah, I’m going to speak as some people say, you know, I can speak in
front of people. And I thought, you know, yeah, let me give it a try and
see if I can, you know, share this project when it been learning with the audience.
00:06:17,120 Then I started, I did my PMP and become a trainer and then realized,
oh my God, there is a huge opportunity in the project management field in terms of e-learning, in terms of solution and technologies.
00:06:31,920 Right. Since I had this technology background and sales background,
you know, I found this niche in project management. So then we set up, you know, I gave up my big, multinational jobs and, you know,
00:06:42,600 big, big corporate careers and started my entrepreneurship journey
because I saw there is a huge gap locally and globally and that was the era of like, you know, you know, cloud-based system, software, the service kind of model, right?
00:06:56,960 Yeah. It’s no longer this typical way of, you know, installations. And if
you have a cloud-based system, you have a software, the service kind of model.
00:07:04,760 You can sell globally. Global, any person in the world as long as you can actually, you know, promote your product and services.
00:07:11,080 Right. So then we started working on developing the products and in 2014, we launched our first exam simulation platform in English for project management, then agile project management.
00:07:22,560 Then we created a platform which is now available in almost like seven languages. Right. We have, you know, we have like more than 120,000 users, more than 100 countries.
00:07:33,360 And in fact, you know, we also try to understand that, you know, how
we can influence in these particular project management, but I figured
out that those were trainers, project management, and the consultant, training companies, they could be a big influencer into this field.
00:07:49,640 So we made them partners. So in under PMS, we have like 600 plus global partners, right? They are using, you know, our technology platforms and systems to advocate their students
00:08:01,760 and their communities, right? So that was the only state journey where,
you know, we figured out a big gap in this, in this e-learning space in project management, very niche in project management, we try to
00:08:13,640 cover it up. And then the rest is journey actually. Then it’s, you know, 00:08:21,760 entrepreneurship is more like a journey where you start walking on 00:08:30,240
00:08:39,560 the street and you figure out there are new paths at the new gaps are 00:08:51,640 there. So entrepreneurs are always big stickers. So, yeah. 00:08:57,680
So now we have like almost eight companies in our group and, yeah, really enjoying this part of the journey. Yes.
Brilliant. Yeah, I can see. Because there is, I’m quite often approached by people via LinkedIn messages saying, do
you want a PMP certificate? Do you want an agile certificate? Do you want to do all these different things?
Which I find quite interesting because it’s, it’s that usual thing, isn’t it? If
there’s a lot of people trying to do it, there tends to be quite a big demand and I know that when I started back in 2002 when I got my PMP, there was, there was Cheetah learning,
00:09:23,240 there was Rita, there’s three or four, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was three or four ways that you could learn PMP. There was, there was, yes, yes, yes.
00:09:34,400 And a very, very small amount and it was at the sort of, the internet was
just about starting, if you like, in some ways. And the, the idea of doing virtual training and that sort of stuff was quite, quite weird
00:09:49,680 then to think if that would happen there. And I, I know I saw something
trying to think when it, when it might be in a couple of years ago now,
and I’ve seen it repeated a couple of times from PMI, were they talking about
00:10:03,280 the demand in 2030 and, and 2044, project managers and skills and
they can see, all they can see is it’s just zooming up and getting higher
and higher. And I can see that we’ve got the need for this training and, and more accessibility to
00:10:29,920 the training. So I can obviously from a, from a business opportunity
point of view, I can see how, how that would be an appealing point of view.
00:10:38,760 So it’s quite interesting that, the way that you’re doing it and the fact
that you’re getting that reach there is, I suppose the question I ask and I
don’t, this isn’t a criticism is, is a, how do you see it from, different from that, that virtual learning to that face
00:10:56,200 to face learning? But, what’s, how do you see the pros and cons? 00:11:03,280 Because there’s pros and cons on both sides, isn’t there?
But I just, and I, I think focusing really on being, having that rounded
project manager walking out of your, um, course, virtually walking out of
your course. And I know that, I know that actually just because you’ve got a certification doesn’t mean
00:11:20,320 you’re good at doing the job. But how do you, how do you see the
differences there in the pros and cons? Very good question, I guess. So recently, you know, we had a meeting with a couple of big
00:11:32,240 corporates. Right? So, they wanted to incorporate our, you know, PMO 00:11:40,920 certification into their programs.
Right? And they said, you know, we’d like to actually, you know, promote your certification because they’re really big company, you know, through our, our big, you know, 2000 network of partners
00:11:51,440 and like I’ll have these, you know, certification programs in, what do you
call it? Recorded version so that people can buy the, you know, record
version and they can actually go to, you know, take the position for the, you know, we said no, we said no, we said no,
00:12:07,800 yeah, if you say, no virtual learning has a full of ways. The number one
is virtual learning. You can have actually a live instructed training.
00:12:16,160 There are many tools out there where you can make the sessions very
engaging, right? The live instructor is also part of the virtual learning.
Another one is the typical one is that you record the training and, and the participants
00:12:30,480 basically watch those videos and take the predictions, right? Because
myself, I’m a friend, I have friends more than like, you know, a thousand
people say on the world, more than business, project management, and things.
00:12:43,560 Okay? And I, I always say this is that, you know, when it comes to
quality, when it comes to learning, effective learning, live instructor training is, is, there’s no alternative
00:12:55,440 of it. Because if you know, most of our learning that, you know, even
00:13:03,520 the PMO certifications that we have, it’s very much hands on driven.
Case is the driven, like we’ll be giving the students like, you know, this
is, this is how you have to prepare a, you know, PMO roadmap. This is a template and it’s how you should do it.
00:13:13,800 Do it as a group, then give the presentation. And it is also connected
with the case study. So it’s more like, you know, very practical approach of doing it.
00:13:21,320 If it is like, you know, you know, recorded version, how do you have this
interaction with the team and, you know, with the instructor? It’s not possible, right?
00:13:29,240 Yes. But, you know, my always recommendation is that, you know, go
for live instructor training first, then if you need to recall the memory is then go for this recorded version, which
00:13:40,200 is also fine, right? So, so as a trainer, I was prefer, it could be live
training, classroom, it could be live training online, but I’m just trying to be more creative.
00:13:50,680 As a trainer. Yeah. All right.
00:13:53,680
So, yeah. So, it’s kind of getting the best of both worlds, isn’t it really in some ways? Because you’ve got, as you see, you’ve got that interaction, but you’ve got that ability
00:14:03,160 to review and go over it again to remind yourself on that. Whereas
sometimes in a, like, I’m really good stakeholder management course, not stakeholder management.
00:14:13,680 Sorry. Strategic planning course. Really enjoyed it, learnt a lot, a lot of 00:14:21,800 interaction with the people I was doing with it.
But now the memories are softened on what we did in the session, and
it’s only a couple of weeks ago, there are things in there I remember,
but I’ve got no opportunity to go back over that other than the booklet, but whilst good booklet got useful information in there,
00:14:39,840 going back over what we actually did in the session is quite difficult to do. So, I can see how that makes a massive difference. So, that’s really, yeah, really interesting, really interesting.
00:14:52,280 So, I suppose moving on from that, you mentioned the, I mentioned in
the introduction, your AI tool, Ali, is it? And I just wonder, tell us about that, how did that come about?
00:15:09,760 Why did that come about? Oh, interesting, it’s very interesting, yeah, right. So, you know, I actually, you know, my first company is PMASPIA, so it’s the same company.
00:15:22,120 And as I also mentioned, we didn’t go this typical training part to teach B&P project management. We wanted to be the technology solution provider for the training companies.
00:15:34,760 So, we have very few competition in this area, because we’re giving the
same experience, the same conditions we’re giving, the very similar to
the elements platforms, we’re giving the certain people what it’s at home.
00:15:47,040 So, the training companies can use it, right? So, we had a very few
competition in this. So, the next one is, once we started communicating and working on project management, the big
00:15:59,200 demand came up for the PMASPIA. Okay, because a lot of, lot of companies, they are actually looking, they were struggling and they were talking about year 2015 and ’60.
00:16:12,080 Then, you know, we set up another way, in PMASPIA, to work on PMASPIA, and we were, we had a fantastic big brilliantly. Actually, that’s the setup.
00:16:23,920 PMASPIA was in a couple of banks and, you know, a couple of greatest companies. And we called it the Conceptual 2PG, you know, initially what PMO, the concept in the way to the PASY-1, go ahead and do basically, you know, to the capital issues, then basically
00:16:42,560 we set up the policy, procedures and governments, right? So, normally, we take like three to six months to complete the PASY-1. Then, we
handled over the PMOs, that, you know, which is your guideline policy, how
00:16:55,680 should you not point to PMO? The gap was, once we started setting up
all these PMOs, big gap, you know, big gap is, there was no solution which was designed for PMOs, right?
00:17:11,320 So, there are a lot of political systems, they are like, you know, very good at task management, we call it fancy task management, because we have created task in Kanbanbo, Dragon Rob, you do it fantastic.
00:17:23,000 Yeah. Very good practice. Yeah, very, very good. 00:17:28,680
So, we got a fancy, you know, project management tools. And very good, like, you know, you can do, you know, task management, they are Microsoft project, which is very good for scheduling, right?
00:17:38,080 So, there are, you know, a lot of other, you know, GRI is very good for agile project, you know, they are here, it’s more like a task management, right? And, but when it comes to PMO, and a lot of our projects, you know, PMO projects were
00:17:52,320 failing in the long run, why, why, why, you see, failing because they,
these were not sustainable. When once we handed it over, then it was not sustainable because the sponsors and the
00:18:04,880 PMOs, they could continue it, maybe because the top management,
they like the value of the PMO. And one of the big reason is, is that, they were not using technologies to generate their
00:18:17,280 reports, right? And many of the PMOs, they were having like, four-five
system. They’re using GIDA, they’re using Microsoft project, they’re
using PowerPers, they’re using X-Cells to create all these, you know, the portfolio reports that they need to submit to their
00:18:33,600 management. So, then we, then I went to, I had a lot of technology companies, project management and then they had the solution company in 2015. They, now, can we have a partnership? Yeah, so,
00:18:48,080 yes, they said, yeah, you know, we can have the partnership and I said,
part, I have a condition that you need to add these new features into your project management system, because they’re coming from the project management system.
00:18:58,640 Is not aligned with the need of PMO, it’s good for project management, but not designed for them. And many of them actually, they didn’t actually, you know, just buy-by-proper. Right? Yeah.
00:19:11,480 And we realized that, yeah, we are a software company, we understand management, we understand PMO. So, then, in 2017, we took a big
call, I assume, took a big call that, now, we are going to create our own business. Yeah, then it was always getting by, once we designed the
00:19:34,200 whole PMO, what do you mean by PMO submission that the program
of the PMO, so we can have design actually put the PMO. It’s like, they
have the type of roles, like, they have the master’s sponsor, we have the sponsor role, we have the manager role in being himself. Right?
00:19:49,320 And you can actually manage hybrid project, you know, agile project,
you know, waterfall projects, even the portfolio management, that was a
phase one of the project. And phase two, in 2018, we started working on one of the typical challenge for PMOs and project managers.
00:20:04,760 Number one. You see, normally we say that, you know, risk has no
holidays, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, this is no holidays. Now, let’s, you
have, you know, somewhat a registered risk in the middle of the line. And Mr. H, probably the sponsor of the project is accountable
00:20:21,240 for this particular risk. And he’s sleeping. And if you, and this is a very
serious, if you do not address this risk within next couple of hours, that
will become an issue. So, do you expect your team members to be live
for 24 hours? And the sponsor, no, why not, we thought, no, why not,
00:20:42,360 we use the technology to give this kind of reminders, right? So, that’s
why, no, we created any, any, you know, virtual assistant, for three of us
at project managers. Right. So, you, you know, keep giving all to the sponsor, that will matter what time it is,
00:21:01,400 because if they see the risk, it will not address it right now, that will
become an issue. That is one. Number two, recently, another, another,
signature sessions call, how AI drives field, with practical simulation action, right?
00:21:16,360 So, number two, cases that I can take, think of the situation, if project managers spend a lot of time creating a task, milestones, sub-task, allocating time and everything to create the WBS, so they may not approach you, right? The WBS. Why not, any helps you, you know, be a tutor?
00:21:41,720 Right. Yeah, that sounds, yeah. If someone could help me write a
project plan when I need to pull one together, it’s going to be a thing
about it, I’d love it. Even if it was just a start point. Yeah. Yeah. Couple of ways you can do it. Number one, you can give the instructions,
00:21:57,960 any, do this, do this, do this, and it creates the WBS for you, right? This
is a voice from what? Number two is that you can ask, really, find out, seemingly that project we have done in last five years. Yeah.
00:22:08,760 Any, any doubts that research for you, she finds the, you know, the, the
delivered project and clear the database based on the last context, that
fails your time. Another case is that, you know, one of the big mistakes, many of the PMAs we do, we don’t catch up lessons learned and we don’t
00:22:25,160 learn from our decisions. Yeah. Every time we invent, we invent the way, when it comes to lessons, we do the same mistakes again and again. What is called machine learning? What any is doing? She’s learning, we have a lessons learned, you know, from, you know, so, right? So, when you put
00:22:43,640 whatever things you have done in this particular milestone, what are the
mistakes you have done in this particular task, what are the mistakes
you have done in this kind of project, that kind of growth, okay? So now
what any is doing? She is learning that this kind of project, this kind of task,
00:22:58,920 this kind of mistakes, our team members know what it is. She’s learning
for the time. And we call it actually machine learning, right? So she’s
learning, now she’s creating a spatter, right? Okay, so now how this
pattern is? Next time you’re creating a W-sheets, you’re saying that, uh, my sub one,
00:23:17,640 task one, and you’re conscious, this task one, maybe, you know, PMP
training someone will do it, be more training someone will do it, be more
training one of the tasks. Then, any will come out and say, all right, this
kind of task was done 10 times, right? And this is the history that we said,
00:23:38,360 it’s successful, it’s 30% for the equipment, it’s amazing. Now you
choose, for this particular task, who would be your eye quizzes? And you say, go for misoying, and she said, the right person for this
particular project, they told them, it’s written learning, right? So I think you’re getting more, you know,
00:23:55,560 realized, how the, actually, you need operating, how early is it to be
keeping our project managers and to be a data provider, the reports,
the movies, and many things there for this, right? Yes, nice. Yeah, it’s a fascinating topic. I know, I’ve had over the years, a couple of conversations,
00:24:17,080 different people around how we can use AI. I know it’s in project
management, I think PMO is slightly different as well. You kind of got
different demands there. And I know I’ve talking to a little bit with the major projects association with Jonathan and Andrew in that area where I think they’re looking at
00:24:41,400 cross industry knowledge to help with these big projects where things
go wrong. How do we learn from each of them? And this, I think this is
a massive hole that we’ve got. It’s really hard to fill the whole list, because you can remember what you learnt in a project. You can even be really
00:24:57,800 good at recording it all the way through your project. Then it’s mining it,
then it’s using that data and being able to understand how that applies
to your next project. And I know that some of the stuff that Shark Tower is doing, that Craig McKay was working with, they were looking
00:25:17,480 to AI stuff on how you can, and somebody AI reporting, things like that.
And I know talking to Ricardo Vargas, he has something similar again,
but he’s trying to look cross organisation rather than I say similar, the
concepts similar rather than being organisation, because the difficulty
00:25:40,040 I’ve seen is that you’re right, we write lessons learned, we find them out great, and then they go in a drawer or they go upon a board somewhere. And some of the people involved in it might remember it,
oh god, we’ve got one like this, let’s use this. But that doesn’t always happen. And the thing
00:25:59,640 I find as well, and I don’t know what your thoughts on this are, the, we’re very insured, we’re in our own echo chamber, because it’s our
own organisations learning. Now we might learn to do that differently,
great, but actually if we were able to draw upon industry knowledge, there might be another better
00:26:22,120 way to do it. And I wonder how you, I assume it at least is kind of aimed
at an organisation, and you put it together rather than joining in this big
beast, because I know that the issues of joining at all of that knowledge in helping all of us is quite difficult, sort of security and
00:26:39,960 data protection, all that sort of thing. But what are your thoughts about
that wider rollout? Well you see, AI, these exploration will continue, I
think, another couple of decades, like in the next 30 years, it’s not a
one-day day, because there are a lot of new ways we can actually, you know,
00:27:00,760 you know, wait and explore and use, you know, AI into this project, right? So it was surprising that, you know, there was not much work
done in AI in project management. AI is very advanced in many of other industries, but somehow in project management, you know, that was, that was waiting for
00:27:17,960 us to actually explore it. Right, so I think it’s a continuous, continuous, you know, learning approach for AI, you know, hardself, because and text, it may take years. And there are a couple of, you know, cases
studies, I mean, in use case we are working on, I think it will give us results
00:27:37,480 after two years. Yeah. So it’s not a, so it’s, so, and again, that’s because
a lot of investment, different industries, requests, you’re absolutely
correct, different industry, because different kind of learning patterns for
AI. So I believe that, you know, it started working. I’m not sure, you know,
00:27:57,560 how many companies, actually, tech companies are still working only in
project management AI, we are one of them, but I see, you know, next
next three to five years, it’s going to be a big revolution in project management. If we keep investing in this particular company, right? And
00:28:16,360 that will become the, the concept is very simple. I, many of them say
that because of AI, job market, we crash, people will lose job, I don’t
think so, because on the other hand, you know, if I talk about in terms of PMO maturity, in terms of PMO maturity, you know, the PMO
00:28:34,040 maturity starting from level one to level five, right? It’s certain form, you know, the infant stage to optimal stage. Among all the PMO, 88% PMO
still operating in level one. That means they have no defined processes,
right? Level one, 88%, that means thing, that’s crazy. How many it will take?
00:28:54,440 This crazy, trust is crazy. That’s one of the, you know, business case,
why we came to this, solve this problem globally? Because, you know, these PMOs will get matured in next 10 to 20 years, so they need
quality, content, they need, you know, quality trainers, PMO trainers, they need,
00:29:13,640 you know, the good quality solutions. So, that’s why you get it to this
particular area to solve problems. Thank you for to add a dollar for that
first part of that interview and come back next week and have a listen to the second part. Cheers, now, bye.
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affiliates there as well. So in there somewhere in the sponsors page there’s links
00:31:34,200 to those as well. So clicking on to those and grabbing your, if you’re
looking to get super fit, then that would be fabulous as well. I get a little kickback from those. I have a Patreon account, it’s patreon.com/sundaylunchpm. So again, you can ping something in there by me a coffee or whatever.
00:31:57,480 And finally, obviously the most important is coming back, coming back, listen again, because the more of you than come back, the more
visibility I get because there’s more times that you’re downloaded and
all the SEO works and things like that. So yeah, that’s it. So if you can
00:32:18,680 help me out, I would be much appreciated. If you can, don’t worry about
it. Thank you very much, Chisna. Bye. Well it’s goodbye from me, Nigel Kreese, and it’s goodbye from him, the Sunday Lunch PM. Goodbye.